EP114 - playing with Tiger, dream job in golf, Rick selling out! (Inci Mehmet guest)

No. But i've played golfer tiger [Music] what yeah. So welcome to the rickshaws garcia podcast everybody i'm your host rick shields here with co-host guy episode 114. you've messed up there already why what is it we got my name wrong i got your name wrong yep ah my name is guyson yes thank you very much um i'm still a little bit hungover from last week yep like bryson hunger over me too um first off thank you thank you thank you to bryson i probably should thank him first he was very generous with his time. And the podcast has gone down ridiculously well i think better than i expected it's gone down phones off please i'm waiting. For our guests to oh well okay yeah. So we have got a really good guest today.

Which we're gonna come on to in a moment. But yeah bryson was great with us i was fanboy. And not gonna lie so what shoot me um don't shoot me actually don't come to me and shoot me um it was great. And there's one little secret story i think we need to tell people about because it actually gave me even deeper insight into the guy he is when the zoom cult out oh my god you need to tell a story. So yeah i hope i try to try to work out the best way. So to the avid listener in episode 2012 we hinted that we have a guest coming for the following week and actually that was monday when we recorded that podcast. And the bryson interview was scheduled. For wednesday yes which would have been a couple of days after. So from monday and all day tuesday all day wednesday we were panicking like how we're going to record it how are we going to get the best audio how we're going to get best visuals because we do have to think about this believe it. Or not yeah people think we're just you know jokers banter men a couple of pretenders. But we do have to think about this. So unfortunately his schedule had to change he couldn't do wednesday you were negotiating with him we had to up his fee. And all this to lock him in on monday that's been five million quid in the end unbelievable so the fact he locked it on monday it was a bit tighter. For us in schedule because we knew we wanted to get the podcast out the next.

Day yes. So it didn't give us a lot of big window anyway 5 30 p.m here in the uk we were all locked. And ready to go yes. And i got him guys and bryson pitched up on the zoom and he was bloody brilliant. And and honestly genuinely hand on heart i didn't know what to expect from him and there was no fee by the way that was a joke it didn't land yeah if people thought we paid five million he doesn't he won't get out of bed. For five million so i think. For what i realized was i didn't know what to expect. And he just straight away i was nervous i know you were yeah because it was a big deal big podcast biggest guess we've probably had. So far no disrespect to any other guest. But he is. And it was kind of like i just want it to go really well don't want anything to go wrong i want the audio to be good the visuals to be good the chat to be really good. And for you guys to get a brilliant podcast brilliant video which you're hopefully going to enjoy forever. And straight away even the first five minutes i suddenly felt that ease yeah in the first minute he just chilled on it he was it was just like a normal lad which he is i guess just dead chilled he's really good at golf he's he's thinks a little bit different to a lot of players out on tour which i think makes people maybe not always like him. So much um but anyway we're going through going through the zoom call we think we've got everything set up ready to go 35 minutes was the moment was that what it was that was earlier than that 35 minutes we're deep at this company deep in the point in the conversation yeah right. And the zoom that on the laptop we're looking at it vanished yeah. And we were like what you went white i was like we literally mean guy froze in in real life throws because we're like what the hell has just happened my worry was how on earth if we don't get this back on even if we do get it back on how we're gonna get hold of him like i've got his emails like his social manager. But what if he's busy what if he's not with him so locally harry and matt who who were filming in the background had the zoom call set up as like. But for me it was more the fact we might have lost all the visuals we might lost all that would have been all his audio lost. So i'm panicking i'm trying to open zoom i'm thinking what the hell is going on it comes up with like a warning sign anyway harry comes in on his phone because he was watching it on the phone as a backup. And bryson's there just on harry's phone eating some bacon chilling eating some bacon and you know we're super apologetic we don't want to waste his time i'm thinking in my head we have to start this all again we're gonna have to start from day dot here and he was just dead chill not a problem fellas take your time. And we're just kind of chatting to him and hopefully keeping him at ease anyway i opened the zoom up and it came up with this warning sign that the video hadn't saved or it needed to convert and it might lose the file and i'm like oh my god so as i'm literally talking to bryson here on the phone and you were as well guy i'm like oh my god yeah in fact did you nip to the loo i think i had a bit of banter with him. But of chat just catching up as a mate and then.

I went to get a drink he left left him hanging yeah. So i'm there saving the video and luckily luckily the video saved so nothing was lost. And i knew roughly where we left off the conversation so for a lot of you listening and watching because we're such professionals she knew nothing about absolutely nothing yeah you believed us not that we like to do that. But genuinely i was petrified. But either way we picked it back up and so even though the podcast was one hour 20 he was probably with us. For probably nearer to one hour and a half um i think the most resounding comment i've seen from the majority this is comments i've seen on youtube social media even friends of mine who have texted me their opinion of bryson has changed enormously yes since the podcast i think the media has betrayed him in a bad light people have decided to dislike him. For whatever reason i think seeing him i already changed my opinion well i said change your opinion i didn't really have an opinion on him before i was kind of in the middle. And then.

Since i got his youtube channel watching that last kind of year or so i've really grown to actually like him and i think the people that maybe hadn't seen his youtube channel. But watched him on this podcast and started to like him which was great i think i think i liked him our guest might be here very soon okay i think i liked him yeah i think then.

I actually did fall into the trap of disliking him yeah from what i saw. And just on social media and stuff and even the daft things like not shouting for and a few things that rattled my cage to be honest your kid was rattled. And i would have had him you know i think you would have had if you just started yeah conversation i'll jump through the screen yeah you would have ricard would have come out you were hard. For that conversation so i reckon i was on the awkward trajectory of starting to really like him again because of things like his youtube his social media. And then.

He followed instagram correct that's that was the top of everest. For me liking him again i've kind of gone over him a bit yeah well that wasn't going sorry yeah. So basically i think the resounding response. And even we went to the driving range yesterday and i was just leaving just after you. And a guy pulled up in his car wound his window down hey rick where's guy you rick where's that buddy ferret from yours he said um he said um you know just i've just literally listened to the podcast today.

And i've got to say i went into it not quite categorically not liking bryson like not even not having another bit not liking him no he's a fan. And he said i've come out of it. And already tonight i'm watching him on pj tour and i've got you know like the star next.

To his name so i'm following him and i'm rooting for him what the hell how muddy is that that on our little podcast we can chat to one of these best players in the world. And it's it's allowing their personality their opinion they're controlling the narrative there aren't 100 as much as we're interviewing and we're asking him questions i'm poking the bear when i need to shouting thor and all that poked him softly you're proud of that i was i was very proud that you asked him do you think i should have followed it up with a harder hitting no because if you'd carried on it would have been like changed the record it was like you asked it because you had to because everybody would have said why did you ask it i'll be honest i was not bothered you're asking it. But i'm glad you did because there's. So many comments when we announced the podcast saying i bet rick doesn't ask him if he shouted or not so the fact you did. And i think his response was um acceptable it wasn't the 100 answer. But this weekend he's actually missed the court this weekend our good luck charm has obviously not not worked on bryson yet um there was several times multiples double digits times where he's shouting four off the table. And i'd like to think we've had an influence on that i'd like to think he doesn't want to see me next.

Time in a dark alley. And and give him the old one too elaborate so what would the one be by the way the jab than the cross hook no straight in with the head butt oh yeah of course he's from baltimore. So i feel like now he's kind of i love how i was saying all this was with such jest. And confidence now that he's not anywhere near me and he's probably not listening but in the fact that he um i felt like there was a level of okay i've had my i've had my telling off i'll shout. For a bit more well the podcast was great that's in the past now rick that's. So last week so last week um just a big thanks to everyone listening tuned in and if you're in the clubhouse we um are big fans of you as the people in the club's big fans of you rick we've got a guest today.

That haven't we've got nc members who is a professional golfer. And a sky sport score the sky sports presenter who is going to have a very she get out i think she's got an interesting story because you weren't sure as to how her career has kind of got to where she is because she's a golfer now presenter i feel like she kind of came out of nowhere. And if you haven't followed her journey you'd think how's she going how she's suddenly on sky sports yeah. So i'm really interested to dive into that shortly she's like saying she's she's due at any moment um we've got time for the bits then.

Before we've got time for the bits right so yeah we're going to have a good chat with insi um kind of get to know a bit more. And just random we've got loads of questions off the facebook group as well we're going to fire towards you. And i want to hear into taking them as well so it should be good on today.

Right got loads planned um we've also launched a new feature. So obviously last week was a guest this week is a guest. So we've got loads of time theme tune go on then.

I'll do it when you have the name of the the new feature um your say happy you'll have your say yeah have your say you can have your say the same thing every time. But we're still carrying on with dear rick we've got a good day right coming in the moment but the difference with having your say is you actually send us a voice note. So i did an instagram story today.

And ask people to send me a voice note um you can either do it if you want to be part of this in the future you can either send them to my instagram. Or to the probably the golf at the rick shields golf show now yeah because that would be funny you get. So many messages on yours if people send them they might not see them so either send them to me or send them to the actual at the rickshaws golf show and we're gonna try and put one on now so if it doesn't quite work give us a break it's just it's guy's fault chill out yeah it's my fault. But he did get bryson as a guest. So exactly so equals out so i've had quite a few sent to me i've vetted a few of them and there's some really good ones but this one is from michael m97. So i don't know his first name uh sorry don't his full name don't know his first name oh i don't know the only problem is now there we go. So i'm gonna try and play it from kind of here uh hi guy um really well done on the uh bryson podcast it was really nice to see his personality come through. And um you know it's really insightful and interesting so well done there my question for you guys is given rick's uh platform. And the size of it and more importantly the influence it has over the consumer space you know the golf consumer space um you know let's be honest if rick shields says something's good it's going to fluff the shelves um. So my question is you know given what we can see these lucrative social media brand deals. And and and whatnot um has he ever been tempted to sell out because i think a big part of rick's success is his integrity. And honesty you know his honesty about his game and the equipment he tests so i think that's a key part. But has there ever been a part a time when he was gonna sell out. Or do you think in the future he'd ever set out first things first if you listen to the podcast hopefully that was good we'll try. And get the audio as good as possible if you're watching the podcast we're not quite sure how to fill this segment you're looking at your hair on your nails and dm and bryson so if you're watching and that was a dead minute sorry i apologize we'll put some graphics over it anyway rick michael's question in a nutshell have you ever been tending to sell out you like you are the kind of guy that looks like you want to sell out bloody lutely i was waiting. For the knot but there was no not absolutely not oh we added it in last minute i did two absolutely not um i think what michael's touched on there is he's asked the question. And it's not a question that it's a question i've been asked before in lots of different ways not a voice note not i think he almost answered his own question there certainly from from he said it's great that i'm influential. Or whatever whatever that may be and people if i give it a rave review it'll sell off the shelves if i give it a terrible view it might not do. But i don't see that a lot in that i just like to give my own personal reviews and we've talked about reviews in the past anyway i think what he's touched on there though is the fact that what has potentially led to said success is the fact that i am not bought out i've never sold out i'm not paid by manufacturers. And i think i know that the audience know that. So it'd be silly if i ruined it like there's no need. For me to ruin that um i think again i've said it on the podcast before pretty much every brand every manufacturer at some point has either hinted. Or have actually put down some level of a hard would you sign full bag full this full dart um and i know a few other youtubers have it's just not where i'm at with it i don't need to do it i don't want to do it. And i do believe like michael said i think people thankfully hopefully trust me trust what i say trust how i make the videos um i am honest in the fact of my holding game. And you'll see good shots bad shots as a review i'll show you what i find in my reviews and how i test equipment um so yeah i think i think to answer that question i have not been tempted to sell out because i understand that has led to the growth of the channel well you know what's interesting as well i think with it we know now that club reviews are a big part of the channel as the taylormade stealth drive has proved. But equally our biggest videos actually aren't always with club more like you know you playing with tommy fleetwood or sam horsefield et cetera but go on sorry but i don't think selling out is exclusive. For manufacturers well that's what i was going to say as well even if you said right okay i'm going to sign to x golf brand taylormade titles callaway. But i'm then.

Never going to do club reviews again firstly people will be upset because they like watching the club reviews. But secondly i think there would still be some kind of level of people when thinking well okay you're not doing club reviews. But i subscribed to you because you were kind of that relatable guy now you do an instagram post every month about the new callaway driver. And how fast it is yeah you lose that we get out of the top rows. And we kind of accept off the tour pros because we know it's part and parcel of their businesses they get typically not always but they sign to a brand and then.

As part of that they have to do some promotional stuff some brands do about another taylormade to be fair actually killing it with some of their content at the moment all the guys just put on literally you can tell the manager put it just something like the new driver has given me loads of ball speed i love it thank you copying it yeah it's terrible. But i think you would lose that personally. But also i'm just thinking that it it not exclusive to manufacturers and you'll know this because you deal with a lot of this side of the business as well we're just talking brands in general but i feel like i'm very um conscious and aware of the brands that i associate myself with so in the past obviously brands like nike obviously garmin is the technology i use uh i've been related i've been linked with lumina over in spain in the past um i've done deals with with um top tracer. And the open and mastercard the brands that i genuinely believe in like like or use them or whatever associated with yeah the brands that i i feel that don't that complement the business yeah the brand that i i'm i'm in. And also i'm very very conscious kind of going back to michael's point about selling out i could also sell out on content my content is outrageously expensive. And again i'm excluding manufacturers i'm talking about people big businesses putting big money deals down talking about um our guest is here i think okay talking about um this content is completely sponsored etc i feel like we're super careful about that having said that if you want to sponsor the podcast email us it could be anything any old we'll do on the podcast podcast's a different entity rickshaw's main channel it's clean cut podcast we'll flog beer mats paper you name it we'll sell it contact guy. And that's brought to you by uh rick shields beer mats that you can get these on there. For 10.99 a beer um so yeah i think tantamount it's a great question. And i'd like to think that i'm aware enough of my own um growth. And how it's got there and i'm very very careful that a few wrong mistakes can easily make the the stack of cards fall down we've got two minutes. For one more thing yeah we need to go yeah right. So other thing i was going to touch on then.

From my own point of view this is something that opened my eyes of the day i think club reviews ball reviews etc are super important people love watching them. For entertainment and i think i'm actually ringing the wrong person back here sorry. So listen you came here for last week for a really i'm actually on the phone here to someone you came here last week for a really in-depth interview are you going to listen to a question then.

If i ask you one no no it's good. And then.

Today.

I'm just [ __ ] about i just don't feel like i'm in this is the reality people don't see behind the camera. So what happens i hold the phone and you just scroll all day i've seen that new tick tock dance dance guy let me do a tick tock dance sorry go on finishing your own chips then.

You can i'm almost no right. So clubberry is important the great we love doing them they provide information they're also hopefully quite fun people to watch. But one thing stuck out to me today.

Now your review of the stealth was kind of mixed it was balanced it was very honest you kind of said how it was fast. But not much faster than last year you like the look of it the feel wasn't great as you know i've been having a few shots the stealth and for whatever reason i cannot hit it i've never seen it literally it's bizarre i'm hitting my own driver thankfully quite well like let's say an 8 out of ten i'd honestly say i hit the stealth of four now that's maybe less the only thing and we saw this yesterday when you do seem to catch it it does come off fast. And i think that's i think that's all down to club head speed i know we've not mapped it. But i feel like you can swing the stealth faster. But you miss strikes and that's not for one second me bad marvin the stealth driver it's obviously an amazing driver i love the paid yes you've got rory dustin marakawa matt wolfe sergio tiger oh yeah tommy. And they're not going to use a bad driver no matter how much you pay them they can't it's great. And there's obviously a lot of reviewers out there who have said how much they like it. But what stuck out to me was how i don't know what i know reviews out of his always that black. And white but and people do say get fitted. And try it yourself but you can't just go off reviews can you because if i watched your not even your other reviews that were even more positive about the driver you would honestly think that's the best thing in sliced bread. But for me it just doesn't work so it's just when that original question of michael before is about how well the reviews are. And how influential they are they are massively. But it's always testament to the product as well because people wouldn't watch your reviews for let's just say a cobra drive that he said was quite good you still should try it out. And see if they like it shouldn't they like how much do you think people should it's a question. For you that's hard to answer it hard don't even ask but out of your review how much of that should people take to the fitting or to the course to the shop if you get what i mean i think you should almost take everything. But numbers okay. So so so all the things that i would say so and what i'm saying about that is is you can take my opinion on looks don't have to agree with it it's my opinion on looks you can take my opinion on sound. But i feel like i've got a fairly good art at ear the sound of drivers um you can take my opinion on um pricing prices prices facts um material technology the story the claims yeah sorry yeah. So a lot of that i'm trying to think of how we structure it the facts. And facts aren't you guys yeah take the facts the visuals you can use my information on the videos because i'm seeing it in person you can use that if you if you wish to before you you look at it yourself um you can take my information on sound. And again until you've hit it yeah. But i think when it comes down to hard data you can look at my numbers. And think okay that's close to where he normally gets it. Or it's not or it's faster it's this or it's that but like that's the bit where you do have to test yourself like that i can't do that. For everyone in the world i can show you what it looks like everybody because that's that's the same fact i can tell you how much it costs i can tell you the technology i can tell you how how i think it looks. And how i think it sounds. But after that testing it is down to you would you agree no i would it's almost like your putter that you use i personally don't like it all. But you like it so if i was your review on that putter you're going to say it's nice looking putting it rolls well yeah i don't like it no. So it's almost like the fact of the fact the numbers are obviously down to each individual. But it's almost like the opinion side of it it's like people know when you say it's my opinion this putter feels good this driver feels good other people might hate it so you still have to like try the stuff don't you want to get like the red face on the stealth like i i actually like the look of the red face yeah i do. But if you were a fan of man city i hate it. Or everton you might absolutely hate it i mean they've got options. And the other but that's not my position to advertise but like there's there's stuff there that you could be subjective on yeah should we get our guest in yeah oh okay let's do it dresses okay brilliant right we'll see you back in a second we're recording thanks. For being on no thank you very much. For having me you're like is this seriously intro um well honestly i am. So interested to dive into your world and find out because i was saying before just with just a little quick quick intro i feel like you just came from nowhere to be in this incredible sky sports presenter oh wow. But it doesn't happen like that no it doesn't work like this i did a little bit of research as i knew obviously you were coming on this week you're obviously a really good player. And and i'm alright insane i'd love to start it almost from here you won the club championship at wentworth at the age of 15. yeah you have been doing a bit of digging work um like obviously you were you turned pro in 2017 right i think. So and then.

Kind of how did you get from young insee winning club championships turning pro only a few years later to not feeling like you've played loads. Yet now sky sports presenter yeah um where should we start with that should we go back in time. And well from the beginning i guess yes let's do it yeah. So i picked up a club when i was four. And a half years old and i think interestingly golf wasn't it. For me initially i wanted to be a professional footballer and then.

I wanted to be a magician and so i went through all these kind of phases i guess where i wanted to be different things and i specifically to this day remember the moment i walked through the door where i grew up and i just turned around to my mum and said i want to be a professional golfer. And i'm not entirely sure why that was golfer's one of many like i said. And as soon as i said that i became obsessed. And i think all of us golfers. And i'm sure you guys know this too we're all a little bit weird i don't know if it's pc to say but kind of on the spectrum like we all have we're all a bit nuts in in in some sort of sense and mine is definitely obsessive. And addicted so with golf i was addicted. And obsessed with being on the driving range and hitting as many balls as possible in as far as possible wow so i very much was a range golfer. And i learned the game of golf quite late yeah. So it was only when i started having proper coaching that i started to understand that long game. And short game are two complete separate games initially i would set up over a chip shot. Or a part as if it's like a mini long game shot yeah. And it's two complete different games and i learnt that very late and so i remember when you said very late how old are you at this point i felt very late i think i was about 15. Or 16 or so now five-year-olds know the difference you know from like picking up a golf club at four four and a half to fifteen it was just super casual at that time was it on. And off just not really it was in the background of your life right. But it wasn't anything you were massively searching. For it was just kind of something you did every now. And again yeah. So i'm an only child i wish i had brothers and sisters um now i've got a little dog so i've got an extra part of the family and my mom brought me up on her own pretty much since i was born. So bless my mum love you shout out she's done a great job in working hard putting food on the table you know providing a roof over my head but also giving me a 20 pound note every single weekend and i took that 20 pound note went to my role you know role midsize which is my local club that's where i'm attached to now. And i'd spend 19 pounds on balls and i still have a massive go at my head pro for charging me a pound of so i used to hit 19 buckets every weekend oh my god in a day and i'd save that one pound for lunch which is toasted tea cakes they were the best how good are they that's one thing that like anybody that you know that's played golf has since been a junior it's that memory of going to the golf club on a saturday. Or sunday the summer holidays every day and having the threat your friends chipping comps putting comps hitting balls in the race it's something that like i feel so grateful i played golf from you engaged and experienced that i'm guessing you're kind of the same yeah i would literally spend all day in the driving range. But i still put my bag on a trolley carry four baskets of balls and then.

Hook two on the hooks of the trolley and push the trolley with my belly so i can get six baskets down there. And just spend all day i know what's inside they've got some loyalty cards that yeah didn't exist back then.

Unfortunately buy ten baskets. And get now they're free and now they're free oh you could have been loaded yeah that feels quite like i know bryson said the other day he was the junior that hit balls. But i was very much i'd rather go. And play nine holes that might be where we went wrong i know but were you was there many juniors at the time like yourself that were hitting balls in your own lane just doing your own thing yeah i guess. So and right now it's definitely the other way around i prefer playing and trying to pull off different shots um more so because i i guess with work and everything that's where my interest is more. So um especially analyzing different sorts of lies and trying to understand different techniques you know how am i going to execute this shot when it's sitting like this. Or if you're short-sighted yourself or if you've got loads of room to work with how am i going to approach a backpack. So now my curiosity levels from an analysis perspective has completely changed so when i was in the curtis cup squad i didn't quite make the team um we were playing around. And you know i learned loads from megan mclaren who's a phenomenal player you know plays out in the states in the lt as well and the way they saw the game was. So different to how i saw the game you know it could be a dog leg left to right short par four and i would take that driver out every single time and go for it because i was that range golfer that saw the target. And wanted to pull the trigger yeah. And and to this day still i guess i'm so much more confident with the driver in my hand than trying to hit a 10-yard wide farewell with a six iron no joke i'd much rather hit my driver. So it's always been a strength of mine but i guess under pressure or if the conditions were tough it would give in you didn't have enough areas of your game to rely on yeah bar the driver let's say yeah. So i was always obsessed with hitting balls. And like i said i was very much a range golfer out on the golf course. And i started to understand difference between long game and short game a bit later same with course management and i think that's where i struggled a little bit in terms of being out on tour if i learned that sooner yeah i could have been a very different player really. So 15 you've established you've hit loads of balls you've figured out the difference between a driver set up and a port you go and win the club championship at wentworth which also you remember as well no. So i was a member of real mid-surrey. And then.

I left for two years because i got offered a scholarship they have brilliant junior programmes so that's how i met dimmock right yeah stephen brown's still attached there. And that was from the junior program at wentworth. So they they offer scholarships out wow yeah i never knew that yeah. And i was speaking to someone at royal middle school. And talking about how we can make golf more accessible trying to encourage more junior golfers to the club. And the difficulty with the junior goal for programs is to keep them there you can make it attractive. And you can help them give it a go. And they'll love it but then.

When you get a little bit older i guess there's perhaps more interests um and other things you want to give again then.

You kind of let go of golf so we've we've started to talk about potential programs at our club which i think a lot more clubs could potentially have the nc program oh do you think i don't know how popular that won't be it's in fact drivers all day that sounds good the inti foundation yeah maybe um. So at this point you think about turning pro. And when so what was the age that you turned pro yes. So i was very lucky with this um. And it was totally accidental. And i think the harder you work the luckier you get yeah. And i like i said i was obsessed yeah 19 buckets of balls a weekend that that's that's your hard work definitely. And um i was just approached by uh clive woodward okay rugby yeah yeah is it sir. And um yeah. So he brought me into his office and he essentially had this software program it's called hive learning where i could really understand and break down the game of golf which is how he approached back in 2003 the game of rugby broke the game down. And hired specialists within each department to really work on it so you have it makes sense doesn't it so if you break down the game of golf you've got the long game yeah. And you could probably bake it break it down even further you've got sub chapters you've got off the tee you've got long irons and you've got mid irons and then.

Short irons and then.

You have the short game which isn't as simple as it sounds you've got chipping you have pitching bunker play putting yeah you break that down even further starting it online green reading. And pace control so you can break the game down you can break it down even further too. So i i had like an eye coach for example that's going to help me with visualization understanding perspective. And then.

Obviously you have your nutritionist snc coach i had a short game coach long game coach so that's where i really started to understand the difference i feel like you jumped like this came out of nowhere though i didn't realize this how did how did that come from sir clive to you was he a member of the club was were you were you winning tournaments that caught people like clive's attention what was it that why you i know um i i don't know the answer to that um. But a coach that he was working with. So he's obsessed with golf he loves the game and like most successful people he's obsessed with being the best and wanting to win right and i believe he wants to work with a golfer and he was working with a coach. And i think they dropped my name it basically provided me with an opportunity to really throw the kitchen sink at it. And give it a go because otherwise i wouldn't have been able to compete probably because a it's really expensive yep and i left school not for the program but i left school because i wanted to be a golfer but i wouldn't have been able to do it um if it wasn't probably. For that support because my mum would go to her local jewellers and sell some stuff to help me play in amateur events back in the day and we used to cook our dinners in a portable cooker and have korean bbq with the window open in the holiday inn oh my god so that's kind of how we used to do it. And so that support was you know massive. For me just a quick one how did that feel. And if you've gone from what sounds quite simplistic in a sense of just whacking balls at the range so then.

Having somebody that's a coach for your strength and conditioning you've got an eye coach did that something that you took too well. Or did it almost feel like overboard. And too confusing for what in theory is a simple game. But yeah we know it's not a simple game that's a very good question um initially sometimes initially. And still to this day i'm all or nothing you know and which is why i'm transitioned into working within media now. And not playing as well and so when that opportunity arose i said okay i'm going to really give this a go. And i was no longer a schoolgirl. And clive he works with professionals he treated me like a professional athlete and how old are you here 16 17. she just left school yep just left school um at wellington college i also had a scholarship there. And it's the most beautiful school it's very prestigious they've got a golf course at school driving range they've got their own rugby stadium like it was oh we didn't have to pay. For the balls there did you no they're all free. But you have to pick them up though after all right well that's that's fair you then.

Didn't hit 19 buckets of balls because i'm not picking them all back up exactly yeah. So i i gave all that off essentially and just wanted to give the professional athlete a go so i don't know if you can dive. So this was all funded like clive was this was all part of the program it was all covered you were getting all this coaching essentially. For free it was free. For me uh but i had sponsors right so i had individuals supporting me so the coaches all got paid yeah of course well i was almost you said that i'm almost i was almost picturing ends almost like a bit of a guinea big kinney pig program like they had all this this infrastructure. But they didn't actually know if it worked and you're almost a chosen kind of guinea pig to go into that model nicest term yeah potentially in like in that in that environment to go can this work can all of these golf coaches turn this superstar. Or this potential superstar into a superstar but you're saying that the program was offered to you you were invited to attend it. But then.

You still had to fund it via sponsors etc yeah which clive would manage. And organize so i didn't have to find sponsors myself they were all his contacts. And i was just a golfer. And ready to go i'm i'm ready so i was practicing. And you know i would go to woben stay in a hotel for three days two nights just so i can spend three days there basically. And they've got the most incredible short game area unbelievable facility brilliant facility three you know great championship tournament venue golf courses all very different and i'm a big fan of it so what's the what's the woodland kind of short game area called now the travis stock area yeah travis is that where where we went yeah. And they've got like the tightness well burn performance i haven't seen that yet you're not allowed to go in there though are you is that right wow yes cobra yeah the doors weren't open just go. And tuck it just that chipping area did we go on that yeah yeah we didn't really have shipping comp i don't think it was a comment yeah who won yeah yeah that wasn't a comp was it not it was like a friendly light knock about me i'll tell you what that chicken area was that god we played. For cheesy chips i got his head covered but like it was that was speaking of again being a junior golfer like we were on there. For an hour at the time i can't remember and you do go back to being a junior again like do you know why that place is. So good in my opinion because it's like a golf course yeah most practice facilities are practice facilities yeah whereas this place you're in the middle of the woods. And you know there's a gate that you have to go in with the code as well which makes it feel special you've got two putting greens and you can put on both of them you can pitch onto them you can hit long bunker shots you can pipe it. And thread it through the trees all go over them and you can play some incredible games it's like being on the golf course. But you can practice. So that's why you were practicing yeah. And i would genuinely repair my pitch marks as well because it felt that special which you should do um yeah. So so this was you you were you were grinding. And was it was it pretty easy transition then.

To turn pro how'd you turn pro at this time like just paint the picture of that like did you have a handicap at this time yes. So like i said i left school. So then.

I was with clive woodward. And part of that program and i went from being a school girl to being treated like a professional athlete which i think was huge um taking it seriously from a young age made that transition feel. So much easier because it was slightly indifferent whereas when you're an amateur. And you enter the professional world you can almost create a huge gap. For yourself whereas kind of being used to all that beforehand helped so i did enter the tour with a lot of confidence i guess it's it's almost a bit tigeresque in the way his dad trained him as he was pro before he was even a pro yeah it was he was a world beater before he was ever a world beater. And i think if you have that mindset then.

You obviously when you do transition into like say being a professional golfer it's not not massively that different to you well if that's the route that you want to take. And that's the final destination i guess you've got to have that mindset and that attitude beforehand you're not going to transition once you're there that's all. So that was absolutely massive. For me and so first year on tour was great really enjoyed it had a really good start i remember my first tournament was out in morocco. And i think i finished 12th. Or something but it was a year they were picking players. For solomon cops he had you know susan pedersen competing in it so i'm walking around as a 17 year old and this is pretty cool you know playing in morocco which is one of our bigger prize fund events uh the european tour players back then.

Now dp world tour um competing in the same tournament as you. So it's got a real professional vibe and i finished 12th and had my first paycheck and i was like wow this is pretty easy i think to this day that was my best led finish that did that almost that'll spoil you a little bit almost like you came out. And it's like i can do this yeah like did it almost like surprise you. Or shock you or almost change your mindset going into future events potentially yeah a little bit more. So i guess and like i said it gave me a lot of confidence however. what i felt was as soon as i started to struggle a little bit as an amateur transitioning into a professional. And having a good start to the year i never really struggled before and so when you start struggling and i think people react differently as well i felt like i couldn't afford to miss cuts. And at that time i was i was with clive towards three years in. And i ended up walking away from it about three and a half years later and i started to apply a lot of pressure to myself and i i think rory mack always talked about this. But when you play golf as an amateur and you play professionally you do play. For different reasons it's now your job it's now your profession it's your occupation and you don't play yes you play it. For the love of the game however. it really matters now and so when i eventually walked away from the program i walked away from sponsors as well and i was funding it i guess from my own pocket. And it started to get really hard just the question then.

I mean when you i think i think i know the answer to this. But i want to hear it come from you i guess but when you look at like the open championship the men's open championship and the silver medal winner so the lead in amateur if you're going on a list it's almost like 50 50. half of them go on to be amazing names ie rory who just mentioned half of them go on to be people that you've actually never heard of actually when you go on wikipedia they don't even have like an actual wikipedia page it might be just yeah joe blogs from 1971. Or whatever and you hear so much about like how that transition from the amateur game to the pro game is. So difficult what are the i mean because obviously the ability is there i guess if you win a silver medal in the men's open. Or have you a good golfer clearly what's the hardest is it that pressure that i've got make a living. Or is it just the athletes out there just. So good they're even better than you could ever have imagined what is it the travel what's the number one thing that makes it. So hard to come from amateur pro or is the one. For me i can only speak from my experience i guess. And for me i remember rocking up on tour and comparing myself to others so lydia ko was world number one then.

She was younger than me right. And i was i told myself what are you doing she's she's younger than you ants. And she's world number one look at the way she puts she doesn't miss anything and so i went out there and compared myself to others which was a total waste of time yeah you should never spend your time comparing yourself to others i think it's interesting i i would 100 be doing that oh i would yeah i would say 100 percent be doing that whether it obviously whether it's right. Or wrong whether it it spurs some people on it it demotivates some people i know from my own mindset that'll be the first thing i would do. But i think i think that's good if that's how you feel. And if that's how you react best tiger versus jack tiger the story's always where he had like picture jack nicklaus on his wall wherever he knew that he wanted to beat the 20 majors 18 majors is it um like that was his goal his drag he was comparing himself that drove him with the people it can really hinder i guess. So i think reflecting on my experience i can only see that as a distraction. For myself however. we're all different human beings we think differently. And if if someone thinks that's motivating and they get better results and it's an absolute blessing that you know that and you're aware of that and you can feed off that. So i think having an understanding of what works best. For you is super important. And that wasn't for me but i've learned from it so i feel like again this you're and i'm really interested so it's it's you're struggling you'd almost class it as maybe you'd even just categorize it yourself almost failing yet you'd never experience failing up until that point and it kind of shocked you and you didn't know how to react did was there a way to come back from it did you see success again was that. Or or was that the stage of kind of you stopping to to play really competitively yeah i think when i struggled. For the first time i obviously found it really difficult and that's when you maybe start overthinking a lot as well and so you ask yourself a lot of questions and i in all honesty did lose my love. For the game for a bit and i think it's because you give. So much to the game and it only felt like it was going the other way. For me and so i spoke to my management and i said you know i'd be really interested in giving this a go which is media. And so we contacted the sky and asked if we could be a guest and that's basically how it started and um rightly or wrongly i was speaking to dave allreds i don't know who who is a performance coach he worked luke donald when he was one of one. And molinari as well and um he's working with jason scrivener on the tour at the moment and i was just speaking to him. And i was trying to i was trying to explain to him how i created a timeline. For myself to have a better understanding and help me make a decision because like i said from the very beginning i'm all. Or nothing and so i've just turned 25 and if i want to compete i want to compete against the best in the world yeah. And if you're the best in the world you've got to have that belief and i guess struggling for a good year or so um didn't help and with the pandemic we lost a load of events and i had bills to pay and so that kind of influenced my decision in creating this timeline of if i'm going to compete got to compete against the best in the world. And i have to play on the lpga tour and the quickest i'll do that realistically is probably in two years time because of the pandemic tour schools um. And i'll be 27 by then.

And like all things if you want to leave a mark you can't do a job. For four or five years and walk away from it you've got to do it. For a good 10 years or so and so i thought by then.

I'm 37 and i would love to have kids one day and and if you're an athlete it's all about you you you are working 365 days a year you've got to sleep well you've got to eat well you've got to train you've got to practice. And i thought you know what i don't think it's. For me that that seems a very big and very mature decision for somebody that's quite young that's played golf for so long and had aspirations from being such a young age like it seems a very kind of like i mean very little seems like almost quite calculated almost beyond years yes well i i think if you if you're going to compete you can't be worrying about any of this stuff no. And i was worrying about all this stuff because you know family situations. Or home situations whatever it is your environment influences you yeah. And so i felt like i couldn't afford to give that a go because i couldn't afford to lose it yeah. And so i had to make a decision and i still loved the game and i i've fallen in love with the game probably more than ever now and i absolutely love playing but the pressure's gone i'm playing for the reasons why i started playing golf in the first place so that has changed i get to still work with some of the best players in the world some of the best coaches in the world and get insight to that as well so some i i don't want to sound negative but sometimes looking at yourself in the mirror and going do you know what this isn't. For me isn't the worst thing in the world and that's me being totally honest with myself yeah well that's something we've discussed on the podcast before in different situations. But golf's a strange sport because you know if you were playing football. For arsenal let's just say and you weren't performing very well and you got dropped you might get to a lower division team and you might get dropped again and you kind of almost get told that you're not good enough which it can be very hard to take a guess. And you should never obviously give up on your dreams we kind of know that but in golf as long as you learn to pay the entry fees no matter what tour it's on you know if you go lower tours you're going to just keep playing i guess it's having that kind of making that decision to say like i'm stopping it must be hard there's nobody that's in golf is going to tell you you're not good enough yeah really yeah you almost have to tell yourself in a in a crazy way because i think in golf certainly if you say i'm not good enough you probably have 100 people telling you no you are you are good enough you can do this you can do this you might have a few really really close friends. Or people you really trust or parents or whoever family members that might go you know what this might not be working out this might be not the pathway you want to go for but i think in golf more than probably individual sports i'd say. But golf certainly if you've got the money you can play golf professionally well. Or not you might lose every single tournament never make a court but if you wanted to you could do well in this game you lose more often than you win i mean you've got a field of hundred. And forty to fifty players and there's only one winner yeah. So you lose a hell of a lot more often than winning baffles me is a lot often just on european tour even the dj tour sorry dp world tour got somebody to win an event the best in the field that week miss cut the next.

Week it's been it's like mental was it sam horsefield did that we were talking to he did he'd won. And then.

It's the next.

I mean obviously there's things going on you might celebrate too hard. Or whatever that's just the crazy that you can be. So on it and it's just golf is a hard game. And if you're not playing well it's very very hard i'm going to come onto the media thing in a minute. But do you now do you regret any not playing professionally not at all done a lot of people do ask me do i miss it. And don't get me wrong i'll scroll through my instagram of when i was playing. And competing and i do miss i guess striving towards excellence. But i'm still striving towards excellence in a different field now yeah. So that's why i've got no issues with that transition because i still have a passion. And i still have a burning desire to excel at something you should work in golf you still it's still you you love do you. And i think you've answered this question already do you think there is ever a time when you go i might give it one more shot do you think there's ever a point. And what and if if so is there a factor. Or one or two factors that would go go on then.

This could be tomorrow when you're playing golf because i know you're playing you go birdie birdie eagle finish you're like actually do you know what there are definitely moments where i ask myself that question. But then.

I'll very quickly go don't be silly and see you haven't been practicing you haven't been playing however. that belief that belief of could i do it absolutely because i know that i can hit the ball far enough yeah yeah the short game is an art. And it was very good at one point. So i can actually get it back. And if not even better the technology has improved so absolutely i i feel as though yeah i could do it still. But i recognize that it's actually not what i want to do. And i'm i've fallen in love with the game again but doing something else and i'm happy about it great that's class and almost now as you mentioned before this kind of timeline that you painted pre-media his timeline of golf and obviously factoring in time for family and stuff which i really want to come on to that as well in a minute not obviously personal but like it's something that female athletes do have to consider you know i think i had we had annika soros on the podcast did a zoom with her obviously she went out the game of was it nearly 15 years. Or something or 20 years where she had a family but she'd done so much beforehand she was already a legend in the game. And she's kind of come back again and still doing incredibly well but that must have been a factor in her life plan et cetera et cetera where it is something that female athletes do have to deal with um i'll come on dive into that a little bit more in a minute um what was another follow-up question on that it was um i can't remember what it was now quick question that might why are you thinking about that one quick question i saw yesterday although there's great tea up though i saw um it's like watching rick i'll come on to yeah i saw i think is it yesterday before that the jazzy golf has set up this kind of women's golf initiative. And a question i had then.

Obviously it's hard for me to kind of vision this being a man who plays golf but is it hard. For girls to get into the game or for women like what is there a lot of challenges out there because obviously i've experienced them naturally like is it is it tough to get into the game. And when you were a junior as a girl i mean i remember a junior i was very fortunate that my golf club was very accommodating to juniors we had a thriving junior section. But equally you can get looked down upon as a junior. And i'm guessing as a female junior was that even harder was the struggles. Or was it kind of easy. For you yeah. So again with my kind of personal experience it was pretty easy because as you can tell i'm a bit of a tomboy i was very confident i played football i was very comfortable being around guys. So that was my comfort zone. So being a member a junior member a female junior member at a golf club where you're surrounded by boys and men i didn't really think much of it. And in fact that probably spurred me on because i remember walking past and you had a junior competition where the lowest handicappers would play first and i was teeing off last because i probably didn't hit it anywhere near as far. And i played off 36. so i remember looking at those guys and going wow they hit it a long way. But i want to hit it as far as them as well so that actually spurred me on and watching these juniors um i'd go round and shoot five over or whatever that was amazing to me. And that absolutely motivated me and wanted to get better and want to beat these boys so i would say from my experience it only did good however. there are loads of other girls. And women that aren't necessarily like that and they might be intimidated by being surrounded by loads of men or boys or they might feel like they don't fit in or they're different or they've never played the game before and there aren't other girls or other female pros in the pro shop that they can speak to who's relatable etc. So that can definitely be a huge barrier. And also overall i'm making this comment an incredibly generic manner women's golf clothes is nowhere near as cool. And as comfortable uh back in the day anyway compared to men's stuff as well and that's another barrier because dress code rewind your watches 10 years ago was very different. So yeah i think there was lots of barriers. And there's still to this day however. i think it is moving in the right direction do you think there's a lot less barriers yes definitely it seems that way anyway from from the outset like i say it's hard to put our kind of um if i can't get my words out tonight we can't put our position in the same as you because like i say i'm probably similar to a guy never really fazed me. And never bothered me but trying to put our feet in your shoes it's like there are certain situations where you do get intimidated. Or looked down on or whatever that may be and like say sometimes it it dealt differently individual to individuals you saying you were a bit tom borish. Or whatever and you were you were happy to spend time with these boys. And and men or whatever but there are a lot of women that don't. And they want to feel comfortable and they want to feel good in the clothes and they want to feel like they know what they're doing and they want to be supported and helped and you know encouraged as well and i definitely think from what i've seen over the certainly even the last five years i feel like it's improved enormously leaps. And bounds to the point where i've got two young girls and a little boy i can't wait to get my girls into it and i'm nowhere near kind of worried or or concerned as much as i might have been 20 years ago or such yeah it's definitely changed loads. And if you look at golf clubs i think they want to have more junior programs to get more juniors involved. And also if you look at manufacturing companies this is a no-brainer. But they're actually hiring female designers to design female clothing whereas back in the day it used to be all men so you know our bodies are shaped differently. So even the way the clothes sit on your body it's got to be cut differently for it to fit well and for us to feel great in it and so yeah i think manufacturing companies. And golf clubs can do an awful lot. And they are doing a lot more which is great. For us um so yeah i think overall it is definitely moving in the right direction i can't quite remember my question before. So i'm now going to move a little bit more into media insi. So you had this idea that you found to get into media did that just come out of nowhere like what how did that come how did that come about yeah pretty much i i mean henny koyak who used to play on the ladies european tour obviously worked. For skye and then.

She went to the states and worked for the golf channel and she's back now so welcome back kenny yes you played what was it what was it i played the british masters when she was still with sky sports yeah. And literally it was like a couple of months later she moved out that's just like oh my god it's like she's like tiger's like personal interviewer cool is that really that is must be the coolest job in golf i think 100 percent. So it's like i've got my eye on that i think henny does an amazing job with it um. So i'm best friends with one of her one of her best friends and i was speaking to our mutual best friend um about the job. And the role and how i was struggling with the playing front. But i had other interests as well and i thought you know henny was a player. And now she's transitioned into media and so that was a bit of an eye-opener. For me and um yeah she's a lovely girl. And i think she does an amazing job. And i wanted to give it a go as well so got this i can't quite remember um any story is it then.

Somewhat similar did she almost i have no idea she was probably yeah obviously because i must admit again before even you dived into that i just totally presumed it was something injury-based. Or or something happened injury-wise and you went nah i had injuries as well okay that that was part of you know when i struggled as well with tor. And not getting the results that i wanted it's because i had tendonitis in both my wrists and predominantly on my left and then.

I also had a disc bulge in my lower lower back so i had injuries along the way right which made it difficult to practice just as hard if not probably made your decision then.

To move away probably slightly easier yeah i mean if if you're injured we cannot work. And make an earning so that's yeah part of the decision-making process i had to take all that into consideration relatively young. And i've got both wrists are injured. And my lower back flares up every now and then.

I struggle to walk 19 buckets at the driving range did it right bryson to chamber he's got he's back in wrist injury too he's out mate actually now i do we know personally really well i'm very jealous we've said this before i think on podcasts. But certainly with yourself now like nick doherty and other people like that but and then.

Obviously rick is a figure head. For this what i'm about to say but it just shows there's so many careers for golfers who actually don't end up being or wanting to be a golfer like you know you can work in the media you can be a youtuber you can work. For a golf brand you can do demo fitting days you could work in retail like. For the youngsters we have a lot of youngsters listening who obviously aspired to be golf pros as they died as did rick. And i went to play on tour i was nowhere near good enough i think we all did at some point yeah look what you do now that's that's exactly it. So it's like certainly i know what some of the gold there's a golf college myosco in preston where it went isn't the part of the module now like actually about like golf youtube and stuff i believe even some of the exams now and even on the pga course the actual professional golf association like trainee course there's assignments about media is that i've seen assignments about youtube yeah like people go. And follow x y and z youtuber tell me what they do go tell what you do bad how how have they marketed it. And i'm like this is crazy because i didn't know it was a job back in the day it wasn't it wasn't anything that could have been a job um. But like say it's it's stem now and i love putting on my golf shoes every day pretty much and calling it my job even though i'm not a tour pro well that's it and it sounds bad there'll be a lot of youngsters listening or whatever and statistically a very small percentage will make a living from playing golf that's just a fact. But for those that don't there's so many exciting jobs and social media's opened up a world moral actually giving people the eyeballs to see i remember um a tick tock went viral a while ago sounds sad this about a lad who is in america. And his job was like a titleist golf ball fitter. And he'd like a little tick tock of his days like right walk with my hotel and that's similar to ice doing my old job but it just shows but you don't have to get on tour to work in in the sport that we obviously all love and i think that's good. For people listening huge so explain the first sky so your management company reach out to skye i presume this guy say let's give this a chance was this easy was it not was like was it oh my gosh rick. So scared it was the most horrible experience ever i remember just a quick one you've had no background in this no no. So you know my intentions are fully to be a player at this point. And so i get an opportunity to sit in the guest seat and um sarah stark bless her was presenting the very first time i was in the studio in the guest seat. And i think my manager was in the gallery behind. And it's it's an artificial setup isn't it because you've got these big lights big cameras and some a lovely friendly face like what we've got here exactly is going to ask you a very simple question. And thank goodness the producer said why don't we do a quick rehearsals because usually they don't do rehearsals because everyone's. So professional um and so sarah stark just asked me a very simple question and i couldn't get a single word out so it was the most heart-wrenching experience ever. And thankfully when it came to the live um you know where the cameras were rolling i managed to spit something out. But i remember feeling incredibly nervous to the point you start thinking about what your next.

Word is going to be. And you feel like you're stumbling and the camera's rolling you've got nowhere to hide it's not like see you guys i'm i can't do this anymore you've got nowhere to go. And um obviously it's scott you've got a lot of eyeballs on you too and all of this and it's live and it's live so all these thoughts was going through my mind i was oh my god what am i doing i don't want to be here. So it was really hard to start off with. But like all things the more comfortable you get and i guess reps the more reps because they must have liked you you must have a good job yeah i don't know you still haven't been grateful you still have that little bit of nerves now before a live broadcast obviously i guess it's much more controlled. But you still get a little bit of butterflies yeah definitely. But it can also be blended with a bit of excitement as well right. So um you know my my voice doesn't shake anymore whereas before it felt like it did. So i was super super nervous um. But now it's just you know i'm excited let's get going i can't wait you know normally when you're at obs which is um ah come on outside broadcast thing you know you're in a beautiful venue you've got players in the background it's it's pretty chill it's nice. So explain to our listeners certainly because we have a lot of u.s listeners what what are your main roles. For sky sports right now i think we're still trying to work that out okay um. So i've done a bit of on-course commentary which is what i did uh just over a week ago i'm just trying to cool down my tan um that was in abu dhabi in abu dhabi at yaz links which was a beautiful venue on friday on friday we had 35 mile an hour wins. And play got suspended it was nuts um. So yeah a little bit of on course commentary a little bit of presenting although i it doesn't feel right of course commentary is you literally on the golf course with a microphone headset pack on your side is it a little backpack. Or not you can't have a backpack you can fit it all in the backpack. But i had i don't have one yet um otherwise it's all in the belt and it's it's actually a lot of equipment so you've got your mic like you said you've got a little box that clips onto your belt. So you have to flick it forwards to speak to your producer directly flick it back if you want to talk on air and then.

On the right is your walkie-talkie. So you can control the volume control the program because sometimes it might be sky other times it might be wild feeds i don't know if that yeah yeah well i i know what that means. So this is almost the feed that golf channel take from australia tv golf channel take from whatever it may be world feed goes everywhere all over the world. And you've got um production channels that can make their own programs out of it i guess um. And then.

Yeah. And then.

I have a fanny pack just so i can put my course planner my business have my pen have my phone because initially i thought on course commentary would be the easiest because as a player you're talking about the game. So you can go out to the ball see how it's lying if it's sat down it eliminates certain shots that they can't execute. Or if you're short-sighted you can analyze all this. But you don't do it. For one ball you do it. For three balls in one group and you're walking ahead and if they're wearing similar outfits as well it's quite difficult to tell who's who and you've got to remember whose ball was who. And how it was sitting. And they all have different yardages you're just hoping someone has a taylormade ball a tightlist ball bridgestone that makes it easier do you then.

Actually bust all the distance that with the bushnell was. For no because they don't add up with the tv numbers oh okay. So you can use your bushnell numbers as a guideline. Or there's obviously paint on the fairways and you've got your course book you've got your yardage book so you can work out what it is the front. But you can't say it's 163 and the tv number says it's 165. how does how does the tv know a far is because we've got pole boys. So that you've got these guys with the backpacks on and they basically tap on their thing which is obviously connected to gps which works out the yardage to the flag. For every not for every player every player every shot now every player in the whole of the field yes. So they're dotted around on every single hole and they're there from the very beginning to the very end not just them ask them i could but because of betting you can't have access to that in that moment just in case so it's all very top secret yeah what the hell it's pretty mad i feel like i knew this world. But i don't know it one bit like what i honestly didn't know any of i didn't know any of that yeah. So they will not give you those numbers even though i tell them i'm working. For media i'm doing on course commentary my producer's about to tell me what number you've got right now my microphone it couldn't be more obvious so yeah. But they still won't give you the yardage so sometimes we can have um a little mobile device which basically links up to what they're doing. So you can have it right there. But sometimes we don't use that and is that a big thing. Or not um i'm still learning this role so it's important to understand yardage because then.

You have an understanding of what club they're going to hit yeah. And then.

You have an you know if they're hitting an 8 iron for example the trajectory of an eight iron's gonna go a lot higher than a trajectory of four iron so it is important to understand yardage. And you don't want to be an idiot and get the numbers wrong because what the view is seeing on the tv is different to what i'm saying. And also you want to paint the picture as well as possible in case people have just made a cup of tea and you know they want to know and understand the shot that i've just described um so it was. So much harder than i thought is it. And is it quite a patient learning experience. Or do you get thrown in the deep end straight off yeah you get thrown in deep. And bigger so you just expected to do it oh again i remember the first time i did on course commentary it was horrible everyone came back to me said how was that. And i said please don't talk to me oh my gosh yeah. So obviously as a golfer then.

You can have aspirations as a golf you can have aspirations to obviously keep your tour card when on tour with a mage. Or whatever with kind of the media then.

I know you said you kind of not. For that long and you kind of still your role is kind of changing. But what's kind of the aspiration in the media then.

Is there a certain like job you think i want to do that. Or can you i don't know if you can say. Or not or you want it to that there's no such way to such a good job i'd like to be like them like what's kind of the the goals in the media world then.

Yeah. So i'm i'm definitely still trying to work that out um like i said to you rick they do throw in the deep end. So i've done a little bit of on course commentary a little bit of presenting um i've done like the hero challenge where you say a few links and you ask the players a few questions i've done a little bit of interviewing and in round interviewing post round interviewing and so there's a lot of roles out there but what i need to do is understand. And identify my strengths i guess and see what i enjoy the most and go for it which one do you enjoy the most i really enjoy them all. And that's a very conservative answer it is it is. But i'm quite twitchy just in case sky sports are listening i like everything that i do thanks guys no i really do because the kazoo classic. For example um i did two days of uncle's commentary. And two days of in-round and post-round interviews and i quite liked the variation because if you're doing in-round interviews for the whole week you start to run out of questions and also having interest in all different departments requires different skills and at the moment i'm really enjoying the new challenge of learning all the different roles so the honest answer is i i'm not sure. Yet and i enjoy the variation and i very much want to see where it goes i don't have a definite answer i'm sorry have they locked you in for like a certain amount of years i'm not saying anything i feel like it's like a lot of like all these different angles then.

It's like i just think if you had a time frame to work off. Or you've got to learn all this in a year you're like oh my god but if it was like you've got five years to learn all this this will be fine like you got more time to chill well there's no definite answer is there like all things you know you could easily lose your job next.

Week i hope we don't every not you guys if it's your show i called it rickshaw. But i guess from your personality than what you've said you're obviously motivated to be the best at what you do. So once you do figure out what you actually want to go down i'm sure you're going to smash it thank you i've got some more questions about on course i forgot to tell you something by the way with the on course commentary too um the mad bit is what is the mad bit that i was going to tell you oh i've just had a rick shields moment i love this shield dying to tell you yeah that means two things now outbound left is a rick shields again we're gonna say is rick shields um i is it easy to do on golf courses that you've never played. Or do you play every golf course i get the feeling you don't play every golf course not necessarily no is it harder to do on golf courses you've not played i would say. So yeah i would think. So yeah because if you've played the course before you know you understand the shape. And the layout of the course you also understand you know the texture of sound because that's going to vary week by week as well um. And you understand the strengths and defenses of goals it's all about the green structures it's like right so he's in the rough air 177 yards i've just nudged my my gps man he's told me that yeah dude i've not got it wrong now the challenge is here it's wind hard off the right. But this green is very much slow from right to left. And if he lands this left of the flag he's gonna definitely catch that bunker on the left hand side which is five foot tall. And i think like you're after a chance they'd be like jobless it's all it is it's like an interview about. So how long have you signed up for this will be the empty show soon. For me what um what trying to get out there i'd get they'd like right cut him off yeah you thought too much one blade of grass that's a bit longer behind his ball i don't like rory come up to me rick i'm right here i'm about to hit my shot the worst bit is i was at um wentworth. For the bmw pga championship and i was following ian poulter's group. And he's he's a great great guy and i really enjoy you know following him watching him play and i can't remember which hole it was. But anyway he could obviously hear me and the death star was frightening when they can hear you because obviously these guys are competing. And it's a very very tough shot you don't want to hold their hands left so what you need to do is when you have your microphone prone to a shank what you need to do is when you have the microphone. And you've got your yardage but you basically put your yardage book over the microphone so the sound your sound waves don't travel ah yeah that's very clever do you hide yourself i've have you had any run-ins with players are they are they are fairly nice oh no they're all very nice are they that's good. And they're that's the professional answer isn't it no they are no i've no issues with anyone have you done any on course commentary i don't know if you would have done with tiger no. But i've played golf with tiger [Music] what yeah this is this is my favorite story that is yeah. So uh when i was an amateur i was supported by nike. For five six years and did you play the old course we did i think i want to see the image yeah it feels. So surreal but i promise you this is a true story it's a dream come true. For any golfer you know especially an aspiring golfer to play the home of golf with one of the greatest of all times for me that is literally the best of that on augusta. So this was on the day tiger arrived in his private jet. And so no one knew that this was the day that he was going to arrive. And when the director of nike asked me if i'd be interested in this day with tiger my response was the double act. Or the real tiger question because i genuinely didn't think that would be real. And so obviously i said yep love to do anything to make that happen. And a week leading up to this day we got sent through the post a letter from tiger just yeah i can't wait to welcome you. And see you there signed by tiger which i thought was sick. And you still got that i still have it and i've actually very recently got the photo from the day and that letter printed off i stole a few coasters as well because we had lunch um signed by him and our tag for the day so i've got everything basically put into one frame which i'm about to frame yeah. So um yeah we were there at st andrews we started off in this tiny little gym room. And you've got five bikes lined up and you've got one opposite and so we're all sat on these bikes and i and who are the other four um. So lauren white who i believe is now a coach out in the states. For college we had conor parcels um just some other amateurs basically aspiring amateur golfers who nike were kind of keeping their eye on supporting i guess. So yeah. And so yeah it was a total of five of us. And i was very lucky to be in the middle seat. And so when we knew that tiger was gonna come because we had the security guards we had his probably managers all radioed up saying he's coming down the stairs he's talking about what's going on oh this is 2015. Or something i feel like i was i feel like i'm going to google it i feel like i've seen this image you might you've posted on your instagram definitely yeah of course i haven't why wouldn't it once a week yeah i remember we were all discussing within each other you know are we going to get off our bikes are we going to stay on when we're greeting him do we bow down you know. And i remember when he stepped into the room i literally felt like god has walked into the room and i'm not even joking even his skin looked artificial because obviously he had his gym top on he had like a blue tank top and his arm was just glistening i was like are you real. And so that was an incredible experience. And he knew all of our names as well so he said hi lauren nice to meet you i'm tiger hi ben i'm nice to meet you i'm a tiger he said hi i said hi you know it's the most amazing thing. So i've never pedaled so hard in my life i've just no it was it's just an opportunity to promote tiger. And the open his kind of comeback on the bike what was that about it's just part of the day trains exactly. So we're asking questions about how he trains and why he trains and all this sort of stuff and then.

From the gym we went to the practice ground so he kind of spent time with all of us and he was asking us loads of questions he was it was not about him it was all about us which was amazing i wasn't actually that nervous because he made us feel very comfortable yeah. And um did you say you were fifteen [Music] yeah something like that okay. So um yeah. So we were on the driving range i hit his driver he was like gonna have a go at mine oh my god this is sick. And then.

We played uh the last three holes on the old course um as a six ball as well why not that's the ones to play as well and it's just like and then.

Obviously at st andrews it's it's an intimate town everyone knows everyone and the root and the word goes out right tigers around and then.

There's crowd that starts to appear and then.

From there we went to a different building which is where we had our lunch to wrap up the day no cameras no photographers. Or videographers or anything it's just five of us and tiger and um by the time we went back downstairs to leave and that was the end of the day the whole building was surrounded by people i've never seen anything like it. And that's i actually felt sorry for him in that moment because i thought wow he really you know that he's amazing and you know people love him and they just want to see a glimmer of him but in that moment i really felt quite sorry for him i thought wow this is your life i'm speechless though you might have stopped playing competitively because you've completed golf you've played golf. And tiger woods like that is what else done i can go tomorrow it's his fault. But isn't it yeah there's nothing else to play well that was it you you've pretty much turned through not not long after. And you were like well i've got to play the tiger tiger andrew's last three holes yeah intimate dinner with him hit his driver well there's five others as well again [Music] sorry lauren white. And um because we were in scotland we asked him oh have you ever tried lion brew he's like no never tried iron brew. So because he ordered uh coke i like him in scotland but he had never tried iron brew before i don't know if you're saying that but i genuinely do believe it i'm gonna choose to believe it. So he had iron brew for the first time with us yeah that's great he took his eye. And brew virginity wow that that's pretty epic yeah it's amazing it's a yeah it's an amazing story. And imagine open 2022 yeah the old course you're presenting you're on coursing your whatever ring yeah whatever whatever skill you decide that they decide to put you in big t comes up you stabbed my driver that time hey hey what would you like him to call your insult in c just whatever he wants i think little fist tom good to see you again remember that time when you showed me how to drink iron brew that would be cool i would hope you remember smiling oh my god probably doesn't that here's a question. For you guys do i want to play with tiger woods at the old cost yes i do if you've got his number yes no um if you had to make a big prediction. For 2022 it could be anything you want it to be what are your predictions oh that's very good um my prediction i've just asked you the question not thought about it myself it just came to me it is i feel like i should know the answer to this i've got two okay there's going to be a hole in one of the par four whew interesting. And bryson de chambeau is gonna be world number two by the end of this year okay i think rory's going to win a major this year yeah i know it's not the boldest show. But we've said seven years this year now he's not won a major that's amazing. And i've got a feeling this year maybe the old i just got a feeling that rory is going to win one i feel like his game is trending you probably see more like you see more of him seems like he's more chilled. And relaxed and yeah i mean rory's a lovely guy. And this is my personal opinion. But i think having a professional caddy rather than a mate could make a huge difference potentially exclusive i i don't know i'm a bit nervous saying it because he obviously knows what he's doing of course yeah. And i think i think it's it's one of those you can't imagine someone with his talent hasn't won more. But i'm sure i've read something today.

He's won something along the lines of ten percent of the tournaments he's entered that seems high i'm sure i've heard that somewhere he's on a podcast. Or something he didn't know laying up he didn't know later podcast and he said it in that yeah. And it was like i've played in 300 events. And i've won 30 of them and however. many tournaments he played he's won 32 times and he must have played in 32 320 events that sounds about right doesn't it yeah because it's an incredible stat. And it also if you go on the official world golf rankings and you just scroll through his performances that is impressive i mean to win a tournament is tough as we all know even if you're the best in the game it's tough to weak win week by week by week. But if you look at rory mcilroy's record and how high up he finishes pretty consistently too every time he tease it up i think that says a lot as well i hate to say we just want to see him win another yeah if it was three rounds he'd win he'd won a hundred tournaments potentially he always seemed he does always throw in he doesn't start well he doesn't finish well. And he's always he said this out loud as well if it's three rounds he'd win i think if he wins another major though i think you're gonna run yeah because again you think about 2014 how long ago that was. But the jokes had before you'd played a tiger probably in your memory think how long that feels to go now that was like a year after he last won a major. And had all that time since if you guessed one you've played golf quick golf yeah yeah in that time frame. And now going to media yeah exactly that's crazy what um what now part of like your obviously job role the media. And everything else that you're doing what do you envision um i'm not trying to trying to work out what the actual question is here it's almost like what do you enjoy what what do you not like about it like obviously you travel you're putting the pressure on air are these things that you'll probably get used to these things that are kind of part. And parcel of the job yeah i think initially when you get thrown into deep end you see a lot of things as the unknown. And now i've got a taster of it i'm starting to really enjoy the unknown and i've come to a level of acceptance telling myself do you know what they'll probably be situations where you're live. And a camera's lost signal and you don't know what you're going to do. But you're going to have to freestyle you're going to have to work it out. And that's actually quite exciting now whereas in the very beginning that would be pretty frightening of course so i've come to a level of acceptance of you know i'm really looking forward to these challenges um and i guess i'm a bit of a home bird too so i like being at home and it's always been very important for me to be present and that's you know to be around near my mum i've got a dog as well um i've i've got a family like you know boyfriend and his family and friends and i'd like to be present because i guess being a amateur golfer striving to you know be one of the best you've got to make lots of sacrifices you miss out on all the parties and you don't go out and then.

When you start doing that over the years you start to distance yourself from people yeah. And that's not intentionally and no one takes that personally. But they might not invite you because they know that you're going to be away. And whatever it is you might miss weddings yeah. And you miss weddings and whenever someone asks me are you free. For this ninety percent of the time is i'm away i'm competing. Or i'm working now well i'm doing this i'm doing i'm away and a little bit of you guys but you can't at the same time you can't complain because i know what i've got myself in for it's the best job in the world now i really love it and it's really limitless and what you can do in this world you know the world is your oyster. So i wouldn't change it for anything but it does come with that have you got your amateur status back no are you gonna bother on that i just received an email from the led that i've not renewed my membership. So i i i will definitely keep my professional status i don't think i would consider going back because did you play in some role series events yeah yeah. But that was when i wasn't really practicing i just i i was. So confused i wasn't sure what i wanted to do. So i i competed in the rose series and i think they're really really good events. And i think they'll grow as well um just dip your toe in just to see if if they still got it yeah i don't know yeah how come you played them just. For fun because i love playing i love competing um and i wanted to see how well i did that that was simply the only reasons why. And they're one day events you know they're pretty local you don't get um many one-day events so whenever you do i'd make the most of it i would still if there was a rose series event next.

Week. And it was just a day. And i was free i would totally play in it that's good yeah 100 one last question then.

Are we yeah no it's good i'm intrigued like i feel like. And again i've seen the glimpse into your world and i want to know like more of like the the the almost the geeky things about broadcasting but we'll save that for another time so you stumped us a bit then.

With um predictions so two questions then.

For you one thing that you love about golf one thing that you hate about golf i'll go for the love question first i feel this is a new topic as a new feature yeah it's just that like i i love golf i love everything about it i love what it's done. For me and i love the game there's all things i hate about golf and i think that's sometimes like any relationship not hate's a strong word. But dislike would like to change maybe but for this topic love i hate so what would you what would you love i would say what i love about golf is that anyone can play it. And we've got a great handicap system put in place so i could play with a i don't know if i had an 80 i could probably play with him and he could have a handicap and we can still keep it competitive. And so i think that's really cool because if i wanted to play tennis instead you need an opponent. And if they're way better than you you can't play against your eight-year-old granddad no you can't. So i think that's the beauty of our sport we can really play with anyone. And everyone yeah which i think's pretty cool what do i hate about the sport um that's such a tough question maybe there's nothing firstly i would say hate is a strong word. But however. i'm confident that a lot of golfers will be able to relate with me i hate how it can that's come from me how has that gone from that to that i hate how it can really ruin your mood with your emotions i love that yeah you could be this lovely sweet person you get out onto the golf course. And you turn into a monster i hate how it can actually ruin you that circles us back at the end of the podcast very nice to start when you say everyone that plays golf it's a little bit weird because we are we play this game that ins in theory is. So nice and so peaceful but only true golfers know actually it's [ __ ] annoying yes in it what if i threw the question into your side what do you love. And hate about it guys so i've played the day for the first time in a while um i went on my own actually weirdly and a little day trip out and i i just loved there's a course i never played and i loved this this feeling of kind of been on my own and walk into a t on this nice course and not knowing what i was gonna see was it a part three was it a path four i didn't have a score kind of a pocket said no idea. And it's quite like a bit deep this was like. So mindfulness in the moment like my next.

Shot was important thing in my life at that moment in time. So that's what i love about golf i think what i hate. And it's doing a lot to change i hate some of the i love the traditions i love seeing andrews i love that cult like historic but i also hate more i hate had a word it the barriers made yeah the barriers. And this isn't necessarily golf's fault but the perception sometimes and some of the rules are still in place at some golf courses. And how there's dress codes i think i'm not people have different opinions on that i saw a really good thing somewhere recently about dress codes. And that like it was a golf course that's changed its perception on how it wants to be seen. And they said that when you go out. For a nice meal sometimes it's dress closet very rarely but you still go and dress nicely because it's just how you want to feel good they said we've dropped our dress code. But we still think people will come smart because they want to feel nice on the golf course. But yeah i think it's more. For me what i can hate is a strong word. But it's that it is it's that like it's perception of the game sometimes people that are snobby around it. And some of the rules which don't make like only playing the four ball if i go on a sunday and the course is absolutely dead why can't you play in a six if people will be amazing i'm. So with you on that tiger and you've done it that's what i mean like in reality i know if everyone's head off in a six volt it's gonna be slow clearly. But a lot of golf courses you could literally go at nine o'clock at night on a summer's night for like three holes you couldn't play in a six well why like things like that after that answering it myself actually what about you rick i thought i could answer this really easily but i must admit i'm slightly struggling i'm the hate one probably on both sides obviously i love but like what's the what's the one yeah the love part is like five. Or six different strands of folds or whatever but the one that kept coming to the top of my head and i'm not quite sure why is i love how golf is becoming. And is cool i really feel like there's a massive change changed dramatically. So on the flip side of your hate a little bit how its perception is sometimes one side i also think that is really changing unbelievably quick i think social media is a big one. For that and like celebrities footballers playing golf and posting about it the bryson and kepker match was you know do you think that's good. For the game i don't think he did any damage yeah. For me i would still remember this like i reckon now if i rewound time to to a 20 year old rick and i wanted to be a golf pro whatever it may be and i work in golf i would almost pretend and this was probably. For my wife let me just check my dates yeah i think it's about right just before i was 20. if i was chatting off a girl whatever in it. But what did you do i'd almost be quite scared to say i'm a professional golfer yeah it feels like it comes with this kind of baggage yeah like i'd almost pretend i'm a marine scientist. Or i'm a dolphin trainer or something i did actually have business cards. But like i feel like now i'll go to a party or whatever and i'm like people say what you do i go i'm a golf pro. And i'm a youtuber and i'm like you you're a golfer bro what like what's time for what's this like it just feels like sometimes i break 85 but i feel like now it's it's whether it's my own perception but i do think like social media definitely cool people play golf now though to play spider-man uh tom holland he plays golf you've got loads of football loads of footballs loads of celebrities people like buddy you. And and like white [Applause] huge fan let's go on the podcast hate side of it there's probably there are things definitely i i just hate the the suit parade. So almost the the complete opposite of what is making golf cool what's holding golf back yeah it's almost it's almost the kind of suit parade like i won't name names. But i looked inside a clubhouse a very very very very famous clubhouse recently and i hated what i saw in it and i was like oh i totally know what you mean that's kind of what we need to change we're not on the outside. And a lot it's cool it's fashionable the golf attire has changed the golf equipment's changed like as much as you know obviously my job is to review equipment it looks. So much cooler these days it's better everything apart about it the golf bags the everything about it the way that it's broadcast on tv it's better the way that golf youtube makes golf look it's better but still you've got this kind of inside this super super super famous clubhouse where you've got to wear a tie past a certain time and it's and it's a bit snooty and it's a bit the golf is ours. And it's like nah you know what i would love to see more of as well and i'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this too personally i think formula one are doing a fantastic job with their broadcasting. And their content i've never really got into formula one until the last year really but when the drivers in their cars yeah they're super cars you've got cameras in there they're all mic'd up as well you can hear how they're communicating with their teams i think that's really insightful. And i don't know if it'll be great or awful for the game but it'd be pretty cool if we could hear the caddies and players talking more about their shot how it's sitting you know getting proper insight and hearing all of that i think from a broadcasting perspective i think that would be huge well it was voted on want it the players got the option to vote. And they've and they categorically voted no. And you can understand why because it's a long round of goals they're going to say something that's going to get them interested justin thomas thing what's that. And stuff yeah they're going to say something that's going to get him in trouble. But you're right as a brand piece i'm a bit similar to you i've just got into f1 quite recently in the last kind of three to four months i cannot believe how invested i've got in the drivers like joking aside when we were chatting about it yesterday didn't that sound like i knew a lot about the drivers because i don't know anything about it because i feel like i do like weirdly i feel like i really know these 20 22 drivers. And i feel like in golf i probably i don't really know really really know that many of them like and it's part of their responsibility if they wanted to grow as individuals it's the it's the responsibility of golf as a whole and how it's broadcasting and maybe tournaments and there's obviously loads of talks about the potential breakaway leagues or whatever this may look like that's going off this this almost um uh formula of formula one as such it'll be really interesting to kind of see how that how that comes out. But you're out on your right now what could be improved for this year this very year now if you were to mic up the players. And the cab is an awesome be cool from us just get such a better insight also i think having that new netflix series come out yeah the drive to survive equivalent i guess. For the pga tour players i think would be huge as well weirdly i'm i've got. So into f1 yeah i've not watched that. Yet but you should watch it i know i know that that's what got that's what's got a lot of people into f1 yeah i kind of got into f1 round the kind of backside. And and then.

I probably will pick up on drive to survive. And things like that and really kind of go deep in investments earlier this year like all things the more you know about it and understand it the more interesting it is right definitely like you wincy thank you we've learned a lot about you today.

And i feel more invested and happier that we got you on the podcast yes. And i cannot wait to see what you do in the future because i honestly genuinely believe you are fantastic. For the game and fantastic at what you do on the broadcasting is just phenomenal because i think when you've got an insight of a player. And you're putting them in that situation i think that the information that gets passed over back to the viewer is really valuable. So you're killing it keep it up keep smashing it got a tear in my eyes no big deal with tissue around here um thank you keep killing it. And uh look forward to seeing you in the future and maybe we should shoot a video yeah i'd love to ex lady tour pro good comment rickshaw he's got a horrible lie here hope he doesn't shank this one shankaracin all over this one no it was awesome thanks. So much and everyone for for listening for watching if you want to rate us an apple five stars you can write on spotify now as well rick which is nice if you want to write spotify give us five stars check out inti on our old social put them down below. And uh see you all soon thanks for listening thanks for watching any last words just thank you so much that was good fun. And a cool studio as well by the way thank you cool to see it in person way back call the mics [Music].