EP17- Comedian & BAD GOLFER John Robins

We've got a first-ever guest we have and is exciting it's yeah is exciting that's like the nervous not. For me for the guest maybe hello everyone it's a it's an absolute honor to be here so everybody watching and listening this is John Robbins hello John has a YouTube channel which we're gonna discuss. But it's not really your main kind of profession let's say I get to the golf course I get teed up with you you go and play the first hole after the first I'll go by the way John what is it you do how would you answer that I'm a comedian. And radio presenter I would say okay. So they're not be thinking I'm guessing you typically get tells a joke could all up well the fact is I mean that that you've had to ask what it is I do shows how successful I am in both of those worlds we've played a whole hole of goal you're thinking he it was enough. So comedian radio presenter yeah. And golfer bad golfer bad golf that's crucial because that's the name of YouTube channel yeah the channels called bad golf. And it's something it's a channel I run with Alex Horne who you might know from taskmaster comedian funny guy the recognizable TV press and also from the horn section and his own his various projects but yeah about three years ago I moved out of London from Bristol originally. But I moved out of London and I got a text in Dallas Alex lives in the next.

Town along and he said you play golf don't you. And I was like I could probably dust off the clubs he said I'm going I go to Portugal every year to play golf with my brother-in-law's mates. And I was like how I'm not sure I wouldn't think I'd be steward. And embarrassed to do this. And I just thought I'd go on you like golf go to Portugal it'd be crazy why not so we go and I'm terrified because there's I think 16 of us at the time didn't know anyone apart from Alex. And it was just the best three days I'd had in such a long time. And I was awful. And but the like I played awfully but it's so much fun everyone was really lovely. And it's a thing called the Marie Cup which was basically a Ryder Cup format between two teams. And had always been obsessed with the Ryder Cup and then.

When we got back me and Alex we were looking forward to next.

Year going on there. So we decided to try and play a bit in between and then.

The next.

Year we went and we were still awful. And we thought well let's just film the rounds because we were really getting into a lot of golf YouTube videos staying up way too late watching endless endless I thought we didn't know playing golf in various ways. And we just as much as we enjoyed all of it and none more so than your own there was no one who was as bad as us. So we kind of wanted to represent what we felt were the majority of people's experience of playing golf. So to put that in some level of score handicap what would pacify in his bad golf I listened to your podcast episode called bad golf oh yeah about why you quit trying to play on the tour. And I thought when you realized and I thought it was incredibly honest of you. And I was sort of really feeling. For you as I listened and then.

You named the score and you scored it was a ti-89 89 it was 18 over 80 oh yeah been it's enough. So after all of this I was feeling. For yours thinking how devastating with me so embarrassing and you name the score 18 over and I thought hang on I checked through all my scores I've played probably 75 rounds of golf since I got back into it two or three years ago my best ever score the pinnacle of my achievement is 18 over okay that was personally loves on my own that was the happiest I've ever been of course. And it made me want to quit adding up and I was it was 87 it's the only time I've ever broken 90. But it didn't quite count because it was a par 69 okay. So it's 18 over and since then.

That was a that was about eight months ago I've never got close okay. So it was that is the divide okay yeah. And you said that that was your worst ever round yes I went back. And found my were still around I played the Oxfordshire math class yeah. And we don't often get to play really challenging courses we played local ones which I sort of pass 69% II quite short Blackland courses and the Oxfordshire I actually have to do the maths in my head. So I was 65 shots. For the first nine holes okay. So what 2023 over the guy that's no solid count is. For the back nine sixty two shots for the back nine is better shot 127 I was with three mates of zelich's. And two other friends this was not filmed thank the Lord. And so yeah I think I was 55 over. And that was sort of my version of you're 18 over yeah 55 over. And I remember thinking I look back at the the card I had 21 bunker shots in six bunkers oh my lad and I remember went to the beat he didn't come play golf and I'm on this book I'm on this beautiful course I'd never played of course like manicured like designed like that before and he is a heart of course. For a for a bad golfer but I remember thinking are you going to enjoy golf. For the rest of your life which is something you want to play golf. Or are you gonna let this sort of thing just completely crush you. And you put your clubs away and you never do again. And I sort of made a decision that day that as much as I might f and blind and just get so down on myself in the course I'm I'm always going to keep playing. And so we started filming the channel and it is just us playing golf very badly. But hopefully enjoying it and showing people that golf is. For people who play golf badly and most people play back off most of the time and I think a lot of people are put off by embarrassment especially you know the sort of old image of the golf club where you know there's rules. And etiquette and pace of play and you know all those things are important. But you should also feel that if I hit it out of bounds off the first tee or it doesn't go over the front tee box I'm still welcome here because everyone has hit that shot and everyone starts off that you know one picks up a club when they first play golf and just hits an absolute kind of stinger in fact 190 yards the show and I think what you said then.

Though on Rick's bad golf was your good goal yeah some of your what you class now yourself was there as a bad golfer. But some of your alright golf will be some other golfers amazing golf. And that's what's quite unique with the sport that you with the handicap system people can play you can mix different ability. And have quite competitive matches and but what I want to start with a little bit more was how the Dooce obviously got the club's back out a few years ago what how did you start playing golf I think we me. And Rick have very similar stories to how we started I'd be very interested to hear how you started him what into it well I came to golf really quite late I was I remember going to a driving range with Cubs. And basically it was a way of them just getting us out of their hair. For half an hour and we'd all line up with a battered old 7-iron and we just kind of you'd the sound of balls hitting yeah that's this high. And I said then..

And the problem was which is a problem that is still at the core of my Golf two days I couldn't work out with our play golf right. Or left-handed I'm right-handed okay in everything I do apart from golf. And batting at cricket come play cricket for a long time but so I offend of my mum's brought me some lessons probably when I was 11. Or 12 and the guy said well you need to decide whether you're right. Or left-handed and played a few shots right I was playing right-handed at the time. And it just I was like a the cost of the clubs was way beyond what my mum could afford. And what I could afford also I wasn't really sure whether I was right. Or left-handed you couldn't I didn't anyone who played golf so I concentrated on cricket and the guy who coached me I I was like oh I can play right. Or left-handed which should I do he said he'd put a bat on the floor he said pick up the bat. And I picked it up and he said you're left-handed yeah just because the way I picked it up now the problem that that's brought me right up until a lesson I had two weeks ago is the most strongest arm is my right arm I've got no bottom hand I don't get through I pull out of shots. And it's because I'm using my body to try and pull the plug through so I'm not there's no pivot it's I'm basically playing a forward defensive every time I hit go that's often a case with crickey players as well they will transcend their skill from a cricket bounce to a golf club. And it doesn't always particularly work because the skill is obviously absolutely. And I was always a back foot cricketer anyway yeah. So I'm used to kind of I mean I'm making a motion here. But you can't see if you listen to podcasts but I'm kind of anyone who's ever stood up on a golf shot will know what I'm doing yeah my right your left shoulder is coming up. And I'm sort of pushing my chest out and that's still a problem in my swing so you saying about like my alright golf being some people's amazing of its true. But I still have the capacity to play a shot that if you saw me you'd think he's never picked up a club before. And it's that's that I'm at that frustrating point where I I can hit I hit a drive on the lessons the best this is the best shot I've hit my life on the last trip to Portugal we have longest drive competition yeah I I don't think about the longest drive competition because they're all their big boys the big boys. And we're and we're like that yeah I saw your visits my team. But not so they've got this raised fairway it's maybe 130 yards from the tee suddenly you've got this sort of Island fairway and they said oh this is longest drive on my turn to the car how they made this longest it's impossible to get on the fairway no one's when I teed it up really high. And you might have to bleep this and apologies but I said in my head I went walking stupid place to hit have a longest drive I hit the ball 299 yards straight 40 yards past the longest drive no way. And it's the only time ever of hit drive where it just felt like I wasn't moving at all and there was no ball. And it just went and there's one and watch this in slow motion now I could not believe it and they're all watching from the bar area and the only group left the only person who could beat me was the scratch golfer who's on the tour everyone else is above scratch by quite a way. And he hit it so far it went over the fairway so he hit it like 320 yards I want it I want a longest drive competition and but you know next.

150 yards well they you know averages out quite well so you go work out if you get hit 300 yards and that's 100 jars that you hit both drives 200 yards I think it's interested sorry just quick interesting he said about the left hand the right hand is because a lot of players are not mmm Phil Mickelson is a right-handed person he plays all of his golf left-handed. But obviously is played from such young age he's become. So used to that where you come into it an 11 year old and when you're 11 did you play a lot of golf. And in younger years no. So I didn't play an actual round of golf until I was probably the girl I was going out with at the time her dad played golf. And I said oh I'll give that I'll give that go. So I bought a set of clubs I would have been 20 first set of clubs I had I was 20 I've been 23 okay that's pretty late then.

Yeah it was a max fly start a set from what is now Johnny Sports yeah. And I played with them I put maybe played six times with her dad and his mate and hit some good shots yeah yeah with no. And then.

Me and my friends started going on a pitch. And putt in Bristol at a place called Ashington core need hire out your 7-iron a new putter and you'd go round and iced really start to love it and it was that one shot maybe every 20 bring your buddy like hang on that's short sort of shot a golfer would hit yeah. So then.

I went to get a lesson and I'd love to see my swing at the time it was like this I can't country describe you like a one of those not one balls. But those things that wobble had a bubble what he calls like you can like flick it over. And it never yeah yeah wimba like a kid's toy. So then.

The guy starts saying we actually need to turn your body you have to move your shoulders around and I was sort of doing you know this like almost like a dance guys if you are listening to this on the podcast make sure you go. And check out the video of Jon's action comedy because it it looks nothing like a golf swing right now what you showing me no it was sort of. And my head would go right up at the end and then.

So since then.

I would I would go to the driving range and I would get some lessons but it wasn't until this trip to Portugal so I've only actually I would say I've only actually been playing golf for about three years and I'm 37 so I don't have that the thing I'm most jealous of of people who went no matter what their score they just got a natural swing because it's they've been doing it since they were yes exactly. So I'll never have that you know what I'm really interested to explore a little bit is. And we said this before before you got a chance Rick on the phone was that. So you're a self-confessed bad golf and what would your handicap be about - 23 23 so you know if I went out now and shot 82 for example that for me would be bad golf but obviously I'm guessing for your handicap that would be like amazing that might be when I am on my deathbed that may well be the best shot but the best score over hit in my life 80 - 80 - what I wouldn't give honestly I would cry if I hit 8 you - I would feel such pride and such achievement if I could hit 82 I do you think it lasts though until you are exactly that is the thing in I think it's actually I I am. So fixated on breaking 90 that it's become a problem it's in my head so if I hit a bad shot or I hit ball out-of-bounds because I write I play quite a lot of my own because I've got free time in the decks my work is in the evening. So I prep and I plan and I watch videos and I try not to worry about swing stuff but I'm like mentalities course management and I'm gonna treat every hole like it's bogey is par. And I'm gonna I'm gonna be so disciplined and I'll shake it off the first tee and I'm like well that's the whole round and I feel then.

That sort of oh there's no point. So I do silly stuff I don't line up putts I I play just it's not I lose interest it's that I play shots I should never play. So I'm suddenly in a bad situation short sided over a bunker bunker and I'll play a flop shot shot which I have never played I think we should play a flop shot I'm just going to flop it up flop it down be about two feet from the hole. So you start to get reckless and what I am really interested in is the sort of because you know equipment. And practice and lessons and technique is really important. But I'm really interested in how much difference someone can make by how they approach a hole. For whatever skillset they've got four shot choice for how you sort of plot out a hole for how you control your head for three and a half four and a half hours there's a really good bit which I'm sure you remember from golf is not a game of perfect where Tom kites playing with a load of like college oh yeah golfers yeah. And they're all playing brilliantly and they say to him we hit the same shot so you hit why you Tom kite and why are we just sort of you know borderline pros. And it says you will have four lapses of concentration on a round of golf. And I won't yep those four laps of concentration will cost you maybe seven. Or eight shots I won't have those lapses of concentration and that blew my mind because I think. And as another YouTube channel I really like all golf sidekick who's very much not about the equipment it's not about very good he's really got a Lexus channel it he's great and he he so very inclusive because he's saying look whether you're trying to break 100 or 90 or 80 or 70 or whatever there's a mental side of the game which can have. So much more influence on your score than like the equipment side and I think that it's in the interest of golf equipment companies. And in in the interest of the PGA to make you think you're terrible at this sport. And that you can get better by spending money yes that's a marketing well you know I got a new set of clubs recently. And they are better than my all surf clubs. And I prefer using them and I play better Alex may be started on Alex got a second hand set of paying ions he's dropped eight shots just because his clubs fit right okay. And he's got a new putter and it is infuriating because this we worked our handicaps. And I was three shots ahead of him. So he's got three shots of me now he's playing eight shots better than me Wow his handicap is going through the floor it's incredible. And that is definitely down to the fact you know you didn't spend a lot of money though you spent two hundred fifty quid. And a second and set of ping irons but there is definitely an industry in making people hate golf it's a weird irony that you're out on the course livid it yourself. So you try and spend your way out of that hole rather than think maybe it's the fact that I am angry on a golf course. And I am tense and I am want I want to destroy this ball I want to hit this ball so hard that it just explodes whereas actually you know if you and I'm terrible at this as you anyone have seen our videos well no. But if you just try and keep calm and enjoy it and keep loose and think right that was a terrible shot. But the next.

One might be the best shot I ever played so I'm gonna say two things here a little bit might not make sense at the start and a little bit controversial I honestly believe even this is the game might sound silly if you can break a hundred you can break ninety because you've to break a hundred you have to have some level of golfing progress if they don't hit the ball decent distance. And relatively you know alright we did a little video the day on Facebook. So if anyone's listening or watching and wants free daily golf tips head to the Rick shields golf Facebook page it's will repost them all. And it was about how to break ninety a little bill clip. And Rick bought a golf ball and a fairy bunker par five so let's just say you're playing your t-shirt on a par five has gone into the fairway bunker a lot of you know bad golfers or people want to break ninety or whatever it might be would look at that and maybe try and just hit it out or not only think about it whereas we actually took a step back. And said well don't try. And just get out with a 7-iron because there's a littler now it's not a massive lip but the chances are you know a bad golfer I'll keep using that phrase. But you know I mean the bad golfer allowed to use it with John exactly you've got to embrace that phrase yeah a bad golf matter. And hit a 7-iron and clip out but actually if you can look at the look at the bunker. And think well if I base out backwards. Or even sideways were there's literally no lit. And just even just chunk out a Sunday and it goes 12 yards 13 yards back in play I've now had two shots but this is a par-5 recompense okay. And then.

Carry and play in the hole those little like you said before. But you it had how many shots in how many bunkers 21 shots in six months so if that was seven shots in one of those exactly yeah in one care. So if that sounds obvious if you could take that down to two shots as opposed to seven there's five shots straight away and also if I couldn't get out bunkers I'd still be in one now so I've got that's very good point and then.

The other thing that's gonna say as well and we me and Rick sometimes talk about this a little bit an opponent says we have a youtube channel but I think some golfers now. And maybe you sound a little bit like this almost have too much access to information so I remember when I was a junior. And I was getting better at golf. And learning the game there was today's golfer. And golf monthly magazines count once a month but there was you know golf on Sky Sports well obviously wasn't the intent wasn't YouTube etc. So a lot of me getting bats or was going out on the golf course. And just trying things and just plain and just play in the game whereas I think sometimes these days as as beneficial as coaching videos are. And we see a lot of benefit in those a lot people get better we get amazing messages of people who've watched Ric and got better but I think sometimes people search. For things online and even go into the drag mission trying to work on their angle of attack and the descent angle another portable launch monitors we're just going out on the golf course. And play in the game and learning can actually dramatically improve your score well three things I'd like Rick's take on they're all put sort of part of this question is a golf swing fundamentally has to be a simple action. Or people would never have been able to do it when golf was invented they'd have never been able to put a ball down in a field. And said see you can get it to that tree quicker yeah. So it has country but it has to be fundamentally you can't be asking the body to do something it doesn't want to do now true secondly it is the only sport on earth where you don't practice on the surface you play on not in this country no yeah often in other countries there are yeah UK is really bad. For for our practice facilities are often on maps yeah driving ranges under covers where you go to the state. So you've got to Portugal or well you know where it's warm weather and then.

Grass is beautiful manicured. And you can stand on grass with a beautiful you know pyramid of golf balls. And hit off grass however. what's really interesting whenever I've shown Americans a driving range of it they wish they have that they don't have the luxury of going to a venue of an evening. And actually have a drive range like we have in the UK it's very different so nice to have both it we massively the other thing that I think we've done in the UK that they've not done America when we built golf course originally we never factored in practice ground now modern golf venues have you go to like a resort golf course. Or the Oxfordshire where you went to that will have a designated practice facility with grass. And the pyramids of balls I mean I'm not the best in it I guess in golf to earn up to a grass range with a pyramid rattles correct. So it is out there. But it's it's sometimes it's harder to find the correct sprats facilities I always think this when when we've been why did we go maybe I went to America. Or something anyway I was at a venue I was like oh Dubai I was over in Dubai I was like honestly if I would have spent my youth here in Dubai playing golf every day I'd be at all pro why I genuinely believe that because the facilities the environment that you're in the perfect greens the facilities everything else. But just because those facilities are there doesn't breed extra new fantastic golfers you know even golfers like sure it was like carried a capybara tour player really he kind of learned on really basic kind of environments emulate on the beach there like seven sites every learnt it was more it was actually more putting yourself in scenarios creativity correct. But it's more it's more scenarios that are actually not manicured. And hills and rough and long grass and and if I'm honest the only place you ever get lights on the golf course with wind of rain and you know horrible situations whenever I've had lessons I'm sort of aware that what they're teaching me is this golf swing. But I'm not playing golf swing game I'm playing golf and whenever I've said could we play out on the course there's this look of panic in the in the teachers eyes which like a bit of a pedi really do you really want to have to go. But the idea that you could say how I could have a hundred lessons and have never never set foot on grass I could never have had mud I could never have had to deal with slope I could so cuz mud you got to add a club yeah if it's muddy sometimes - yeah windy hill. And no one's ever dug into the the floor of a driving range. And I'm going out on the course thinking I was hitting it. So sweetly on the range and yet I'm getting these these sort of divots or footlong sort of skid mark divot and they like well obviously because the map bounces your club back up so you're sort of there's two separate sports there yeah going back to the question you had about golfers golf professionals go out on the golf course. And teaching there possibly is a fear because it's much more time thinking after the charge an awful lot more. Or charge an awful lot less and earn less for that time which you know and from a business that's my ideal sometimes golfers facilities don't have the luxury of growing out in the golf course sometimes there's barriers that can be put in place. But I'm not saying there's no you know there's no excuse ideally yes you would take every student on the golf course the other thing sometimes is well on the golf course let's say we go out on the golf course. For an hour and I'm teaching how to play golf in an hour we're going to play four holes you're having it twenty golf shots which is actually not a great dealership of shots we're in a studio. For an hour you can hit 50 golf balls. And work on a technique again it's just good mix isn't it I'll get those to be a mix it happy you have to be able to go somewhere where you can play the same shot 20. Or 30 times just to feel what it feels her apt to get that mechanics you know so that when you do start because what are there a lot of people get very good at hitting balls off mats you know another thing with this is that when you hit balls off mats you often just focus on strike which is obviously important. But only in a golf course if you strike and I mean wow. But it's the wrong Club and ends up in the bunker ten yards short instead of on the green that's gonna be a problem so a lot of golfers when it goes to drive minge and we talk this a lot they just hit ball hit ball hit ball you need to actually focus on target to play different shots pair of three-quarter shots and really kind of understand your golf swing like that as opposed to all that felt good because I've hit a lot of shots in the golf course that feel good end up in the pond or over the green or whatever goes back to your point about being creative being on a driving range Matt you can still be creative you know even flip tough things like having a foot off the mat putting the ball on a different location on the mat. So it's not as so kind of linear you are experimenting with it the hitting shots where you are going. For different targets and you're swapping clubs measuring the wind and you and you're actually visualizing the shot and doing your practice swings taking your time at the driving range those you as much as I agree it's not the same 100% and even now it's gone to the point where simulators have become a lot more popular now so even the flight is simulated which again isn't the same as seeing a real ball flight I just think there's limitations in a way that golf has become more inclusive. And to be able to get players to hit more balls our facilities like driving ranges and simulators things are. But it is taken away people from the golf courses you know people are becoming driving range golfers. And they're not becoming golf I have a very good driving edge all four are my is the best if you saw me hit drive on the driving range at Trafford down the road you'd think I was probably I could plus two handicapper because I'm free there's no consequences I hit it hard hit it far can shape it get on the golf course. And honestly I can it it well I can also miss the fairway hundred yards either way. But also there's there's a whole side of the game of playing rounds of golf which is strategy shot selection none of that you can really replicate on a on a on a driving range. So people are being taught to swing the club well they're not going right this your your shot tends to tell you've got to fade. So you've got a you've got water where your natural shot shape goes so where are you gonna where are you gonna line up. And if you hit the driver here you're actually bringing that bunker into play so it might be advantageous to hit a 5-iron off this tee and then.

Are you really gonna get another 5-iron into the green. Or do you want to hit them 99. And then.

You're on the green in three you've got putt for par yeah that's never been a part of any lesson I've ever had. But well it's it's well you need to you need to come under yeah you need you need to sort of be be really turning. And never on a golf course I thought the amount I turn is gonna change the fact well we talk about a lot we launch monitors oh yeah like launch monitors as much as they're a tool I use as a tool from the only coach. And what reviewing and testing and and I do like hitting golf balls on launch monitors it's become. So the norm that you know people like on a driving I've hit that it's it's spun at like 2500 spin on the golf course you'd never question the spin you'd hit a drive and go I love that that was crushed I never I'm never looking good oh you know it's just spun that 100 rpm too much. And you go for a fit in now and it's you have to get the spin rate round the launch angle right and yeah. And it's lost that feel it hasn't I totally agree just a quick on experience so I would agree I think there's a market actually one is starting to emerge a little bit this is quite interesting I don't mind giving this this kind of company a little bit of a plug here I think it's gonna be a separation between golf professionals who coach. And golf professionals who train but also I think the people who train out of course he managed you around. And also gonna be golf professionals there's a new company settled by caddies who are out on the tour well that's what an amazing idea. So caddies in their spare time again this is the bounce that moment they probably got enough spare time. Yet but you can hire a caddy. For around a golf and they will manage you around the golf course they won't give you anything technical. But they will manage you. And they'll say you know have you thought about playing the hole this way Ryan hit a seven idea I think even you do in that you would break 90 yeah a great if it wrinkles on your bar key break 90 today.

I think I don't think there is a golfer in the country whose handicap is above fifteen who wouldn't shoot their best round yeah with someone who knows the course it maybe knows a little bit about their game telling them what shots to him yeah because I look back at rounds in my head recently where I've messed up. And it's it's it's either shot choice or not not committing to a shot those are the two problems I have yeah okay. And like you say there's nothing more frustrating than hitting the perfect shot well hitting the ball perfectly but it'd not be the right shot it happens a lot and because because when you're bad and inconsistent it's quite hard to know so say I've got a hundred yards to the green and I'm playing badly do I hit do I pick a 9-iron thinking you're gonna hit this badly. And it's gonna go hundred yards yeah well do I hit do I pick the sand wedge. And go no this is your hundred yard Club. So what it always the opposite of what you do. And that and that's the balance just too quick on it was talked a dxperience. And the guys who are doing that just. For anyone watching and listening and with the initial I've seen this on the golf course and when I give advice to shoot my students before you can give the best advice its measured it's calculated everything's lined up. And they can still stand the ball stand over the ball in the head crap shot mm-hmm it just happens like bad shots happen. And as you mentioned do you play. For your best shots or do you play. For your were shots it's. So hard to predict well what about this other sort of an analogy might not make sense but I think it kind of does in terms of golf vert of the driving range let's just say I said I wanna become a boxer right in 12 months on out of my first fight. And want to be a boxer and for the next.

12 months I'm gonna go and see a trainer I'm gonna work on my power I'm gonna hit I'm gonna use the punch bag all the time a little bit of pads mostly punch bag I've even got machines to telling me the angle that punch out the power that I deliver etc but I have a single spar I get into the ring now I'm having a good punch it might be powerful might have erm you know good angles not a good movement but as soon as I get punched I'm gonna I'm not experienced there soon as I get against the ropes a little bit I'd not experienced as soon as they punch me or you know I see an opening I don't know go for it didn't know to do that. So it's very different a little bit no me not the best analogy. But it's kind of similar because at the range nothing is fighting back exactly on a golf course especially with wind as I make icon room the last time I thought window rash the rate that basically that the range essentially is the punch back it's good. For technique but it's not sparring which is the golf course. So it's a bit like if snooker players could only practice on turf suddenly they're on this table they don't know how the ball reacts yeah I do think it's an opening ad. And it's shown in possibly performance as well as much as players are apparently hitting the golf ball longer I know if we've seen some reports recently from the USDA in the RNA you were saying golfers certainly at the best level isn't hitting the ball longer scores haven't dramatically improved well I I heard they stayed the same yeah over the past 4 20 30 years which is you know I like playing with nice clubs I love watching people play nice clubs I love watching reviews of nice clubs it's like watching Top Gear with like a Ferrari in a Lamborghini going up against a portion it's just it's great to watch. But it's such a damning indictment of all of those technical advances and new colors and new shapes and twists and weights and shafts that we're still just as bad as golf as we were we're just hitting one shot in 10 further yeah any to the driving range reading it further launch bonuses were hitting it further. And it has been proven that the best players in the world are hitting it further. And the best players in the world of scoring batter but the average course and most people aren't really improving and I think a lot of that again is down to how we train as golfers. And guys I point before I also think golfers are overthinking it now like you mentioned before on your days off. And your your strategy you know put strategy in place for getting around the golf course it's not real life because it changes why I don't think I've ever had a strategy massively going into a round of golf I'm more if I if you know some of our best rounds of golf I've run late to the tee I've not been prepared I've hardly got any tee pegs yeah that's true. And and I stand there with no expectation level. And a bit like rushing a bit flustered and play a great round all the times I can go there an hour. And a half early hit golf balls I'm blue in the face feel like I've measured the freaking wing speed and the temperature and the way that I'm feeling and warmed up and go out and shoot friggin 88 or whatever like yeah there's no sometimes is in it what works. For you I think again with like training devices. And launch monitors and sirens if you can hear the whatever that is ambulance please cast something like that in the background. And lot with like GPS is. And and information it is handy it's useful information I've seen guys with like a watch a handheld GPS device it's something I'll speedometer like way too much information. And it it clouds their way of playing I honestly think people sometimes will turn up better slightly hungover a bit running late not really today.

Yeah John John was in Manchester last night. And signed a bar for what four hours on your own huh yeah it's never you think I'll get there early. And beat the traffic I don't wanna be caught in traffic around Manchester and then.

You get there anything I think the real reason that you got here at half-past four is. So that you could go to that public I tell that you would think about since the moment you got up this morning. So just a little bit off topic then.

Something that John may or may not be aware of every week we have a listener of the week okay. So I already like the possible candidate for list yeah a listener of the week basically there's a several criteria that the listeners have to hit they have to email us which is podcast at Rick shields comm you have to start the email off with hi guy. And Rick so it's not hi Rick Rick and guy these guys way of control it's hi guy and guys a little bit hey does it have to be a. And D or do they have to use an ampersand are there any more stupid like announce. And ideally okay just save time than I'm sound a little squiggly thing yeah I said that without me no it was yeah this is not an ampersand that's not the point. And we also like some evidence and some some reason and some rationale is why they should be listened in the week. And this week we've got a good one can I just say this is that is a great feature. For a radio show so I'm just gonna make a little note maybe oh why is your radio where can people listen to your radio show oh yeah you can hear the Ellis James. And John Robbins show Fridays on BBC Radio 5 Live from one till three wow that was hard to finish in here yeah one two three on Fridays on five live lots of numbers though that to be fair in their radio 5 live yeah there was a little 3. For a man who's only been doing that job for 8 months it that was hard asking me what are shows granting one salary the record is it live live radio show yes it really yeah what do you talk about mainly oh I'm not a big radio listener don't you worry. So we have feature called John's shame well where people write in with their most shameful experiences and I read them from the bottom of the well we could do this. For golf yeah yeah all right listen of the week we'll trade you will trade you from stories in the bottom of the well that would be you do have imagined that yeah cheated anyone it could be you know like first T nightmares oh yeah I think we'd to get John Robbins his name in there somewhere. So the bottom of the well brought to you by John Robie sponsor no he's not a redundant name Robert anyway that's that's. So we've also though so we had this list of the week and then.

A few weeks ago we had the now-infamous ed brown so ed brown wrote in with such a good email he became a VIP listener and he's actually if you look to your left up late on the wall of VIP wall Italy so I think this week potentially we could have a new VIP. So if not think I know why I've just noticed some of this several reasons why. So let me read this one email hi guy in rick you guys the best so what a nice star please can apply. For the of the week he's a very dedicated fan he watches all the videos now the big thing for me is the amount of screenshots his centers. So firstly he's a podcast subscriber and got a screen shot to prove it he follows Rick on Twitter and actually follows me on Twitter Jets I'm a bonus point he follows Rick on Instagram he likes the videos he's got a screenshot I like the videos everything you've got subscribes the second channel which is the channel people are watching this on potentially one of the big reasons why. And welling up saying this he's actually also called guy so guy Bowyer is listen of the week a couple of guys couple of guys just chilling good. And slightly making trouble in my neighborhood I think Rick it's only fur that you can be a VIP I love to vet it you can have a look through he's definitely from the week I'm gonna give him that it's down to you read this by the way if I had a time machine that could take you back I know these questions here's a question all right yeah this was given a really good one. So let me just find it again so this is another reason why I didn't go through all right guy bow yeah I think. Yet spelt be oh my yeah yeah I'm looking at John to know that John went to Oxford. So I'm leaning on you for this I'll so like you we competed this morning did you yeah well there's some stuff on there that isn't true is it true that you share the house of Russell Howard yes do you what sounds like a proper comedian oh wow I'll give you that yeah I'll give you that he still do the the news show what's it called good news he know that became I mean happy can a fan really Santa sky suits the Russell Howard our on sky alright it's good it's great he's a funny guy. And was there someone else you shared read John Richardson yes from countdown yes yeah that's mad how's it like being in a house with like the three comedian was you another guy is what Mark over whose. So we were all in Bristol. And it was great I mean that was like that was sort of my training ground when I just started it just full-on banter. Or I don't like the way banter so much but is it what will the term banter still meant banter back in those days it wasn't just sort of men being really aggressive with each other right yeah. So bullying back then.

It just meant me it was great. And it was. And you know it's the same when groups of friends live together but when sort of groups of comics get together or live together it's sort of amped up a bit but you have running jokes that you have sort of callbacks to jokes and little sort of phrases and stuff and and you're sort of it's like spinning plates sometimes when you're just chatting and it teaches you to be quickly that muscle in your head that goes on to be the the comedy muscle that you use is getting trained every two everything you're doing is constantly thinking is the joke what's that you always feel like you become a character in the house in a way you've all got your own kind of roles certainly yeah Richardson's book Coco Pops in the fridge. And then.

Russell was the guy who made the mess that made John go. And then.

Alva would just come back late at night with the takeaway and just sort of watch it all take place what was your character in the house well I went into that house not drinking hadn't had a drink. For about a year and I came out of that house roll it out that was Richardson made he made we were at home on a Sunday he was an amazing cook he's an amazing cook nice to eat meat at the time. And he made this lamb shank I'd never had a lamb shank before let alone sing someone who wasn't a chef Michael um sure yeah yeah impressive. And he made it and he put garlic in the lamb he cut holes in it and shoved bulbs of garlic in and he had a bottle of white wine and I hadn't had a drink for about nearly two years I just like need a glass of that wine mate next.

Thing you know cut to me ask you vegan oh yeah pretty much. But some some well I've never said I am full 100 that vegan because just the hours that I keep. And the places I have to eat sometimes I will just eat a cheese sandwich if that's 1:00 in the morning. And you don't eat meat no not me first since long shank no I haven't meat since the kebab last night about five six years ago I can tell you the story is disgusting know about experience in. And so the question that guy had any way that I've got more question who was the funniest guy in the house was there a house yeah what is it as easy as saying that. Or not likes I feel like if it was a house full of golfers one of them would be the best golfer mmm you can define best golf that's why I'm interested in finding best font. And most funny is its objective it is subjective it also depends what sort of what you're after John Richardson I have to say is one of the quickest people sell dry. And he is the speed at which he's got a joke Russell probably perhaps has the more his more religious. Or mother flourish yeah to his jokes in the house I mean. But Richardson for speed is one of the one of the quick Bank Russell more of a storyteller yeah Russell likes new little act outs right. So he had good he's got good sort of voices and little sort of imagine scenarios whereas if you want a pun if you need to state your life on someone coming up with a pun in two and a half seconds Richardson he's already doing five I see those programs where they literally come on stage and sell tell like jokes like I don't what is it what's the program called where it's live it's all comedians in the on stage. And literally a word pops up and you've got make a joke that's I mean you know well no I could talk about it they you know that in advance yeah oh right it's not there's not unfortunate there's not coming she's just told Rick that Santa's not real survives there's not a commissioner in this country who would allow comedians who would just trust comedians to be funny okay yeah because that could go wrong okay yeah all right it's made it more interesting unless it was like a genuine improv show like whose line is it anyway. So that's that's that's genuine improv who who's you comedy inspiration sorry I know we're going to go in a minute guys listen guys listen of the week he's fine here's the thing guys it's not like I got into comedy through being a fan of TV comedy. So I was never like obsessed with stand-up Russell Howard is a great example of someone who has encyclopedic knowledge of stand-up probably 1980 to 2010 okay he he could he knows every she knows every comedy well he knows every Eddie Murphy routine he knows every kind of yeah. And and and Richardson does as well. But I was always obsessed with sitcoms. So my comedy so inspiration hero is. So cross between Rik Mayall and Alan Partridge oh yeah Rik Mayall from bottom yeah what's a bottom that Rik Mayall. So great because you can you can define your age by where you know Rik Mayall yeah Terry the a you either a Young Ones firm I think I miss young ones I yeah I miss young ones. So bottom for me is a 12 year old oh my god I never I was about my life yeah I was about nine ten thinking this is the greatest thing who ever seen. Or the filthy mention catflap was another thing he was in oh yes Oh Alan bastard. So he's got these sort of projects but for me it was bottom. So I'll show my girlfriend's I had a bottom I'm like hold on t Hat's because you're gonna laugh so hard and she will sit there saying yes healthy wife had like what is mmm they just don't mean they're actually farting yeah this episode yeah I don't think like that's the type of humor I could tell is it. But it's not just male humor that is it because obviously female fans know. And weirdly feel like blokes would like it more looking back at bottom I thought it would have dated much worse than it has I've not seen a recent one there as in I've not seen one a smelly one recently yeah because you know. So much has changed in terms of comedy and sexual politics and stuff for the better over the last three or four five years so I thought looking back a bottom from what I remember it - grubby blood yeah. But they're always the butt of the joke they always lose and and also what strikes me is how brave a show it is because every episode starts is two guys sat with nothing to do now to write a sitcom from the premise are we gonna do 18 episodes each episode starts - guys I don't got anything to do we struggle. For YouTube videos like that's crazy answer but yes. So that's that's my that's really close to my heart and it sounds ridiculous because I kind of know how I got into golf and becoming a golf professional this being my job I remember obviously starting YouTube and why that became a career how did comedy become it did someone just say - you're bloody funny at one point how does it happen absolutely all right absolutely now the issue that's still there waiting I. So I finished uni I did English uni moved back to Bristol I was working in a bookshop like all English graduates tend to do. And I'd always like really loved comedy and ID but I didn't really know what how you got into comedy I don't even know where to start so I started writing down little ideas in a little book then.

You start to think well this is no good I'm sat in my bedroom Bristol writing ideas in a book it's that's not what you know there's no way that could be a job. And I'd kind of been a bit resistant to stand up I think. And what was behind that was I was jealous I was jealous of people who could stand on stage. And hold a microphone and get laughs and that could be their job so for a couple of months I stayed writing in my little book and being all kind of frustrated right harder thing evolved and then.

I I then.

I quit drinking and so this is basically my comedy my drinking ended the day before I say my drinking I was just drinking too much. And I stopped drinking the next.

Week I went to a doing open I went to watch an open mic comedy night okay in the back of a pub six people in the audience the week after that I said to the guy which is Mark who we live with I said can I do it next.

Week said yep. So I did it next.

Week it was my first time away six people are modern safe cr7 maybe Wow I'd never. So my first ever stand-up gig ever went to was the one before that the second one was the first one I did Wow. And I came offstage and it had gone fine I'd overrun I told a story that was too long. And I was like when can I leave this again you see this again I need to do this again when can I do it again. And they said well you can't do it here next.

Week. But there's one in Cardiff that runs on a Sunday so you could do you could maybe give the guy in Cardiff a call. So it gives me the number it's the next.

Sunday go and do one in Cardiff that one went a bit better. So I thought well what I need I need anis to another one at least another one tomorrow well I can't so I to wait till the next.

Sunday so I got into this situation of having to wait every Sunday to do these gigs alternating between Bristol. And Cardiff and then.

My at work at borders the bookshop they said oh we we need to change the shifts. And we need you to come in next.

Three Sundays and it was like I just got this knot in my stomach going like I can't do something it's the gig on Sunday that's all you were working. For all week was the gig yeah to do this gig you know no money you know driving across in my old mini. And while fast it's not far from Bristol to Cardiff isn't an hour right yes. And not too bad but just loving it and also having this great thing to it when I wasn't boozing saying like not just on diet cokes and stuff and then.

And I said to my boss. And to this day I can't believe I did I said I don't I've quit because I need to do this he was like what do you mean you old do a gig once a week. For no money. So I stopped it was maybe three months after my first gig I quit I handed in my notice. And since then.

I've been comic no now I didn't earn enough money from it I've sought temping here in the area. And then.

And then.

It was then.

It was my job. And you're like how is this your job. And then.

And then.

So you've got all the gigs you're doing and you sort of you know I was basically earning enough to pay my rent yeah. And bills and then.

You're like oh there's this thing I can do. And this thing and how do I how do I get onto this thing. And so seven years after I started I moved to London and you know there's just always another thing you can be doing. And comedians as a bunch are very very supportive despite what people might think about you know bet they're all really. Or sort of jealous or whatever but actually if you go how did you get that thing. And they'll go all you need to call this person so I told you yeah yeah. So really really great sense of community amongst what's your biggest gig today.

So you did Apollo yeah it would be the Apollo. So I've done that two three times now give some context - maybe our us listeners what how big is the Apollo audience. So the the Apollo is probably the biggest room in the in the country that you would still call the theater as opposed to a stadium. Or an arena was it like 3,300 okay. So and it's really interesting so I've never done an arena gig or a stadium gig and they range from sort of 3,000 - I'm Micky Flanagan as filling out the M en and things aren't Peter K Y so that's a whole different beast and it's not it's it's a different skill set I thought it has to be and they're you know I there's no way I could step on stage with the stuff I'm doing in the rooms I'm doing at those rooms yeah it would just be like. So it would like be playing a two thousand yard golfer like me chopped them throwing me unto the 3000 Gloucester it would be like throwing you on stage at the Apollo when you go on the stage at Apollo the first time why are you more nervous. For now sorry today.

Teen up on the first tee. Or when you do a gig first - really I had a dream. So I slept for four hours last night in - he had a proper good night into chunks I woke up at 4:00 this morning in my hotel I had a dream where I sat next.

To Roger Taylor the drummer from Queen and I'm asking and it's a music big music concert and I said why don't you do festivals that often Roger he's telling me about why it's not practical. For them to do festivals. So the bright in-depth dreamless Brian walks it's a question I've always wanted to ask is why did he do Glastonbury Brian walks in he's got his guitar I said Brian I'm just checking to she's talking to Raj about why you guys don't like each other yeah yeah just check to roger's - why you guys don't play many festivals. And he sort of just sort of shrugs and looks at me and then.

He nods a piece of music and I realize I've got guitar in my hands and there's the guitar solo from Killer Queen and I realize I've agreed to be there like second guitarist on stage and he's about to start playing and Rogers now set his drum kit and I haven't picked up a guitar since I was 18. And the play the the plectrum is like six inches long. And I realize I'm about to play guitar in front of I and Brian May and completely I've got no I don't even know where to start. And then.

I wake up and that's because if you're playing golf today.

I'm playing golf with golf's version of Brian May I think when this goes out though the video will hopefully have already gone out. For people there's gonna be VC for situations well I know we don't play because it well you don't play to get too wet and rainy either like I was in like I'm a pampered princess I don't play when it's wet right no because we can't film in the rain event just me though no. So that's one situation so people listening now the video may not have something Manchester's just sunny all the time do the situation is you have played in a few drew. So good game guys no that's good the next.

Is that Rick one. So well done Rick for your wins and the last one is that John one all people are listening now will ups in the video I'll get you. So one of those situations is this happen. So we write John up today.

Long's do the podcast even though this kind of was a little bit the last minute I thought John without an interesting story with in golf. And as our first guess but with an idea for a video which we've banked because it's a different idea than what we're actors filming today.

But today.

We're gonna film myself has got professional I don't know I'm talking to her cameras. And you guys with one club versus John a bad golfer with all 14 clubs play enough scratch nine holes who can witness the video this on YouTube camera playing off scratch. But you've got all your clubs Rick's got a club just one okay you pick my Mary well I know how many of my clubs are useful to me you can actually it's a real disadvantage some of the clubs I have in my bag that I think that'll be good if you you can pick any club. But can't be drive it's gotta be an iron yeah it's gotta be an ISO you can pick well here's my thinking right. So how far do you hit 7-iron 170. So how is there a 20 iron wave I remember the way is the lower got hit with it the look yeah the lower lofted Club II get. So if he gets three I in they're gonna hit it long way baby I've seen you bogey a hole with a four iron against Tommy Fleetwood I know right like you could give me a thousand clubs or bogey that hole we might work it we might try worse than that that's the plan that's the premise no I think it's a good I think it's a good idea I think it's great I'm really excited. So a golf question up the back of that leg cuz I think we'll do match play what is your as again I was a bad golfer what's your favorite format of golf I I'm a stance guy I really like numbers I like the fact that when I'm playing golf I'm always playing against myself. And there's always a goal so when people go oh we just we just played match play normal out or do you shoot then.

I don't know what. But you know one it was a great game I think independent what about the stats you know sure you want to know how many putts you averaged do you want to know how many go fairways you hit. So I like to just play all formats at once and so you play is might be where you're going wrong I just figured out why the hell it says match play you've got an abacus you've got a calculator you can you're keeping your Stableford. And you're keeping your stroke play so when we played this golf trip in Portugal that the sort of prices are based on Stableford points because that's great because then.

Everyone stands a chance the sort of the match play is what wins the cup. Or not so that's great because it's actually feels like the Ryder Cup and then.

People can sort of have their stroke play. For their own personal sort of records and I think that's where like the nicest way to do it because what you want is. For no one to feel like the rest of the day is wasted yeah. So the great thing about match players everyone listens this we'll know is you know if I take seven shots to get out of the bunker in match play they're taking out all the more reason to get our next.

Tee. And Singh here we go that's why I love it I love match play but I think when you're starting out when you're trying to improve that thing about breaking 90 the first time I broke 100 it is a really good goal to have no I think you just I've got to be careful it doesn't become too big a goal that yeah all right well I had a guy in. For lesson this weekend and you know been playing a couple years I said to him. So you know what was yonder cap I don't have one okay no problem. But no not a lot of people do these days I get that you know what's the what's the best goal you've had i don't really count Oh what I'm gonna struggle with is how the hell do you know you're gonna get any better. But if you literally don't around the cap from you don't know what score you count off how are you gonna get better because it's got a bit you know if I were to lose weight I need to know how heavy I am now to know how much I've lost except you're like if you're gonna if you're gonna grant a golf course you've got to put a score down even if it's 127 that you you know you got you've got to know weight starting block is to know how much you've improved by. But if you as a golf coach wanted to create the perfect player you would want someone who started off with his that sort of lack of stress about scores and stuff because then.

When you introduce them you know he he'd be so calm on the course that there was an interesting story McIlroy recently did a little interview. And it was the barest training when he was growing up. And his dad how he how he trained him into a good position and basically he changed the power of every hole so if it was a par four it turned into a power eight. So a macro scored a six he called it and after nine holes he'd say tomorrow okay well done son you've shot 4-under. For nine holes there and he was like well shot. For under in theory it wasn't for endure in the real world it was 20 over. Or whatever but because he changed his mindset he thought I'm 4-under and then.

The next.

Time they went play his dad will caracal to cut the power of the of the score that day. And then.

Again I shot two hundo Wow brilliant well done son like every it seemed like he'd played really well well on the flipside if it was actual real score I shot 52 again okay. So it's like it is mindset thing I do believe that you do need to have a starting block. But then.

Don't get obsessed with it I think the obsession. And again like we've said before if you start shooting 90 consistently the next.

Thing you'd want to do shoot 8 it on there 80 like it's just what it's well my goal my dream. And I purposefully made it achievable is that I want to get to a point in my life. And I don't doesn't matter when that is I don't ideally I'd like it by the time I'm 40. But maybe by the time in 45 I want to play off 18 yeah. And if I could play off 18 where I'm sort of if I hit a Duff shot it's maybe one or two around it's not this sort of terrifying inconsistency that I have I would be happy with that and it's not like I'm never gonna I'm never going to play off single figures I don't have the time I don't have that I don't have the dedication to the practice I don't the time to practice. Or play enough if I could play off 18 play two or three times a month go on a hot trip a year play some nice shots be able to feel in control of what I'm doing to an extent I would be so happy and the the thing I've got now like you saying about changing the pars now I have this rule that if I've got a putt for par no matter how I got onto that green I cannot be disappointed myself you've got my mate you've got a putt. For par and I don't care if that's 35 feet yet or that's stone-cold par is this is designed. For every single golfer to aim for the shot you're about to take so doesn't matter if you skid it 60 yards off the tee you then.

Hit half decent iron and then.

Bad chip that's flown past the hole if you've got a putt for par you're doing just fine if anyone has seen any of our videos you'll know that that sort of mantra that sort of philosophy is rarely shown it's usually just me swearing you know one thing that I think I really like listen to somebody you know with a high handicap speak because you know a really bad golfer yeah one of the things you may love to say it one of the things you mentioned then.

Was about you want to you know you have this aims we're more consistent. And I told we get that but I want to kind of almost break it to you in a way that I'm like it never comes because you will get better as a golfer. But like so Miami for handicapper and we could go out today.

And play me you and Ric and I could shoot for of a park could shoot level par I could also shoot 12 over par and a low I have a shoot 55 over par no. But 12 volt power to me is 55 over par that's the different you see. But how many suit in terms of consistency how many nightmare shots are you playing to go 12 over par it's maybe not some any nightmare. And that's that's a good points met lots maybe nightmare shots but it's where I should be boat and Boggan holders should be power in so it's not like we you maybe shanking on a bound although sometimes do that still. But it still is that same feeling. So with the safety its we address flotation level doesn't it advances as you get better it's not your my horrendous shot you were looking. And go that's not a render shot even there's been times where I've stood on a tee and there's plane with crowds and whatever not I'll hit a drive and it's not a nice drive of not it's it great it's kind of looked all right and I've held my finish and guys about great shot right that's amazing I think wasn't really like your expectation level. And sometimes like you'll actually hit a shot that is wayward. And you think it's the worst shot in the world. And again either people are watching going that wasn't too far off you write your own expectation level change is the Beth you go golf I'll be. So interested in like a year or two to speak to you again and see like what you playing off then.

And what you perceive is because the question I had been it's very broad kind of loaded question. But you meet someone of the pub last night let's say and you stated or I play golf and they said a handicap what will the handicap have to be user class was quite a good player would it be a feeling. Or would it be 15 or would it be scrap like what cuz so it's obviously subjective to me if someone said I'm off +1 I'm thinking Google player I if there are five thinking you've decently would good player. But so what I'm thinking in that scenario is would I be embarrassed to play against you okay noise was that was that that was the good point noise yeah yeah someone sounds a horn whenever John makes an insightful point the horn has now been sound [Laughter] we are to manage that lorry around the roundabout every time you insightful boy now now. So I think this is a big barrier. For people who aren't yet good at golf or maybe will never get good at golf is that embarrassment of being with people on around who playing better than them even if they're not in their group if they're waiting behind them. And I think if golf clubs really want to thrive there needs to be a way of balancing pace of play which annoys me as much noise anyone with the fact that someone in front of you might take eight shots in this hole might take nine might take 10 mm-hmm now as long as those that time is spent playing those ten shots it's not one shot than the check in their phone. And their mark in their car then.

They're doing their binoculars and you know that's bad that's bad etiquette but if that person is trying their hardest to efficiently. And swiftly play ten shots on a par four they should not be made to feel self-conscious or embarrassed because otherwise Dolph can't just be for good golfers have you experienced getting you know do we do you almost put that thought in your own brain. Or have you had an experience that would cause that thought now that's a really good point sometimes you are you're just you're projecting that on that other group walking past you who you've let play through. And we always always let people play through that's how you get good pace of play the old teapot from the tea that I don't like that's the only one that if I I think unless the person in front of you unless you're actually trying to make colors some if you're trying to get their attention you shouldn't stand on the tea really until you shouldn't beat up them the tea swinging. And sort of hands on your hips and trying to sigh so you can be heard over a hundred yards away. But you know that said pacer play is a problem. And it's a very sort of current problem so what back to your original question if someone said to me I playoff ten I would think if we play I'm gonna hold you up her nights you would be embarrassed that said we're I to actually play someone who played off ten I stand just a good chance of beating them as if I play Tiger Woods because the handicap session that's great it's interesting you say that because like I am by no means a superstar a four handicapper black I'm no I'm not I'm not cuz I don't have cone on supers no. But I mean I don't know come across from a next.

Point I'm something that I'm knocks I'm not you know I'm an alright club golf I mean that's literally it. But I understand what you're saying about the people on the tee and stuff like that but honestly now if we went out and played and again this way I said I don't superstar I said I'm a foreigner of twenty three you might feel a bit of pressure. Or nervous but honestly now and I'm speaking truthfully I wouldn't be I've seen bad golf as a play I know I was a twenty three hundred capper at one time. So I think sometimes people who are high handicappers feel nervous about playing with lower handicap I totally get it. But actually you don't always need to be like well yeah a lot of people are a lot of the ridge tops you saw idiots. For one of a better word out there but a lot of people I just accommodate you know oh absolutely and the amount of times that me and Alex been playing and and you know some people have played through or some people who come past us and you know we've got the kit and we look like that is that taking is that taking lots of time people are. So nice they make a little joke about golf or they you know they're self-deprecating don't fill me you don't get me out there and all that stuff a selfie with Alex but I think it is perhaps a slight generational thing that when I see older people playing golf they seem to be just enjoying it. So much more because they're they 're they're having fun with their mates they they're getting out there they're getting fresh air there they've got to catch up in the clubhouse they have a bit of competition they're not sat there going why am i why am i coming up I'm coming over the top I'm. So coming over the top you know I don't know put all older people and into a bracket you know bought a lot of old and I've got evidence this from when I played at golf this until eight years old a lot of the older members or seniors some are competitive. But a lot of them just go out there like you said to have fun get fresher they have old battered clubs I've nevertheless in the life. And they're not how you play believe on it's so easy to forget how fun golfers exactly it's so easy to forget so I worked out and I I try I met someone who works for the like marketing for golf and I said you know a round of golf is 10,000 steps. And they were like huh shortly they knew that well just think that's such a great on well into golf courses you women are do 10,000 steps a day do it in three. And a half hours yeah with a game yeah in the countryside mm-hmm you know yeah yeah you may have that idea if you're listening whoever may want to turn that into a actually no copyright John Robbins we need a copyright sound effects as well yeah I think I do honestly believe if I see somebody playing bad golf it I'm not bothered why I'm almost. So whether because I've seen it I've been around it or it's not affecting me if I saw someone top the first tee shot at my car plus I don't see that but I'm not interesting not looking going you know you should've known that time I hit 18 over my best ever round which to bring spectra was saying you'll your worst have around that destroyed your hopes. And dreams that keeps you awaking killed me yeah that well I've had rounds of golf where I felt I was playing much better hitting further you know making better contact. And I've come off and I've counted up and thought hang on you know that coming right 10 shots worse than 87 you hit yeah. And also they've got the golf trip we go on like I said they range from scratch to 36. And probably the 36 handicappers it may be a bit more than that but so we've I've been on four trips which is 12 matches is three each I've only lost once nice. And I've played against like I've played against a range of different skill sets and there's something that happens to me on that trip and it's all mental it's not I don't start playing better I've all my shots on that trip in over 100 yeah them well over hundred something happens when I'm up against with three other guys I just wait. For someone's head to drop and that's when I feel much play is one of the most exhilarating things inside because you all hit though you're all hitting bad shots you're all fluffing shots you're all missing putts it's about who's head trick goes versus rats. So it just becomes a case of you know I have my ten seconds after the Duff to have a bit of a swear at myself or whatever but then.

Next.

Day loose yeah that's what's good about much play yeah of that obviously they call me the postman you always deliver right. So we have currently gone for an hour and ten so before we wrap this up I think we need to sorry um super quick one you 36 I'm the capper mate mmm what's your impressions of him that's a good question well. So on the he might feel nervous playing me I'd say this for and sometimes we have people on who might only have played a couple of rounds of golf and we're playing on long courses they you know when someone just has an innate sportsman likability or sports person likability which I do not have this thing about see you. Or natural everything so you watch them and you think yep he's gonna shoot 36 40 over he's gonna lose next.

Year he's gonna come back. And he is gonna be playing off 20 then.

The year after that he's going to come back he's gonna be off 12 yeah. And that's pretty much the case and I was that's who that's what you're suggesting there's people you know in the thirties. And forties picking up a club going okay watch a few YouTube videos six lessons couple strips the driver suddenly 240 yards you get 250 friends like that who used to play football who now play golf play a bit in the summer could he easily play to 1,400 captures because they've got skill. But also even the ones that don't the worst it's gonna be that's your bad point noise now that's my buddy this is the just the lame lame take. But actually that billets right for they listen the worst I've had the worst that round of the Oxfordshire and I could I looked at the scorecard this morning I got par on that round of 120 70 Wow it's impressive as bad as that was I you know it probably took us five hours to go around the four of us no one was behind us luckily the course is beautiful I hit a couple of good shots would I like to play that badly again no was it the end of the world that I played there hardly no did the course look any less beautiful we're the bill do tell powers. And that just it what I did about twenty fails in the clubhouse is just as nice the guiness tasted just as good my friends were just as much you know making me around yeah. So worst-case scenario it's it's a nightmare and you come off thinking right I'm never playing golf again but then.

You wake up the next.

Anything okay I can do better next.

Time yeah exactly. So as I said I think we're about an hour. And fifteen now and it's it's flown by but what I thought we had to do before we wrap this up it's just get a bit more of a plug on bad golf. So thanks for him obviously I've been watched a few the videos before we spoke and we've had a knack I could out the first time I heard the channel with a video on how to stop bad golf like that messages going people were like no that jokah me. But no the good guys well then.

About. So we found the channel and we sort out the vault at the time 8,000 subscribers whatever it was. And as through speak you've got nine points four or five so nine and a half thousand subscribers it's only been live a year which didn't realize though it that's pretty good for it every first year and you had nearly half million channel views yes. So we're at the minute what me and Alex were able to commit to. For the first years we'll film around each month us playing and we'll put it out in two halves because he's so busy but he loves it I'm less busy I also love it but I don't know anything about editing so we're kind of doing it all ourselves we did the first round we've ever shot on an iPhone before. And we think that's going to make it easier it there were a few glitches. So apologies if there's just a couple of sort of visual glitches with there's a problem with the editing or whatever but it still looks I think it looks really good the dream is we get around a month plus another thing either a challenge. Or an interview so I'm going to chat to Rick later. And we're gonna hopefully put that up on the channel and we're going to have some comedian guests who also play golf ya know play a couple of holes with them. So there's going to be more stuff on there it's always going to be focused on the fun element it's always going to be quite happy to revel in the fact that we're not very good it's very relatable isn't it yeah. For golf it's not we're not giving anyone advice and even from your very very first video we've come back in the archives the introduction video is freaking hilarious I look bad right the way I don't know I feel like literally like shaking hands rage it's like one of the funniest scene that's the person I saw yeah yeah well it's just. So nice alex is a dear friend of mine. And he lived such a couple of miles away from me I mean like I say he's got taskmaster he's got tall he's got three wonderful kids he's got a dog which I'm that's where I'm saying come on mate this is taken too many times he's got a lot to do. But it's so important to us that once a month minimum thing we do is we get out we film ourselves playing around the Gulf we have the competition. So I won't spoil who won the first year but let's just say Alex got three shots after the first year and he's making hay with them so what's kind of the because what I would also sorry you can follow a bad golf on Twitter yeah. And Instagram is I think bad Golf Channel. But the other way around sorry so obviously a bad Golf Channel insta it's and I can entertaining channel. And and from what I see you know the videos do well you look you've got quite a hardcore engaged audience. But what would be cuz I love YouTube obviously it's part of my job I love to look at channels and understand more about them what is kind of the is there any goals in place is it to make obviously you know a living from essentially in the future would that be a goal it's just as a side project it I think what no it was I was talking to this to someone the other day it will always it will never be something we need to make a lot of money from. And that's a really nice place to be 100% it would be nice you had to make a bit of money it'd be nice to and we do we've been invited we got invited to Gleneagles to play Gleneagles because like a lot of those you know really historic clubs they want to show people if anyone you've actually got a really nice need to go to yeah golf course is like that. And from a bad golf perspective so I think if we could if we got invited to play three. Or four really nice courses a year like top level courses just just people can see someone you know it's shooting 1990. But on one of the courses that you're you so we when we play Gleneagles it was getting set. For the solheim cup the rough on the pga course was out of this world. And i'd never played on rough like it so your ball is in the rough foot in you don't flee shake that up. And grab it because you can you you will not get out of that way. So it's fascinating as a golfer and the queen's course there is the most beautiful golf course I've ever played just absolutely stunning. And I didn't realize that that golf course was available to me I assumed it was. For members there'd be a two-year waiting list it would cost you know hundreds and hundreds of pounds what a place and we got invited to play there and then.

That's that was great. So that's all we really I think you know as long as it's fun. And we're getting the odd interesting experience yeah. And we have been supported by Cobra yes you set me up with some new clubs we're going to get fitted with them. For another set of new clubs next.

Week some new clothes and stuff the people there are. So lovely that's really much in their ballpark wanting to appeal to a wider audience wider audience the clubs are slightly cheaper that's one thing they've done very well that we've mentioned this on several podcasts. And video was bought like the Cobra Drive. Or actually both got in the back of the minutes over yeah. And it's just like the the price point they've hit it like three four nine four drivers still loves you not cheap but compared to the competitors it's much cheaper but I found I think if they can keep that momentum over the next.

Few years it could could be big things like you saying you reviewed the new one by keeping at that price point clever really important. And you know let's let's be honest 349 quid is still an awful lot of golf up yeah. But it's 200 quid cheaper than competizione sec yeah. And I don't think it's a bit like headphones you know the difference between 10 pounds set headphones. And a 50 pound set Evans's massive difference between 50 pounds set of headphones 110 pounds set headphones yeah difference between 110. And for grand no one no no it's ridiculous innit. And yeah look. So the channels grateful one of the things with how does it differ obviously you've done TV you've done stand-up on stage you know how does it differ from your perspective. For YouTube and the audience and the way you can create content does it give you a license to be as creative as you possibly want to be I mean it's no coincidence that apart from us in this room there are two other guys who have a skill set I don't have one of them set behind a computer the other one is sorting out the cameras the audio equipment don't give away all our see there's all my own there is a team of people behind an awful lot of productions on I've been on a TV show before in America. And it was mind-blowing why I couldn't believe the amount of effort goes into every single scene we did I did a stand-up recording two days ago. For comm campaign against living Mistral yeah in in conjunction with Dave yeah. So sort of a roundtable discussion about mental health and also doing stand-up touching on mental health and sort of cutting between the two there are four comics on that show I would say in that room there were 40 to 50 people working 16-hour day to get that made to get it edited - I just I turn up they get me the coffee I ask. For the gay they make you our food mic me up they do my makeup I will forever be in all of those people who are like yeah I'll go - I'll get a pro - I'll go - no no it's all good to work a man whatever. Or oh if you just give me that t-shirt I'm just going to press that t-shirt because you've just got a bit of a crease in it. Or oh that color doesn't match so I'll pop out and get you a t-shirt that won't strobe on the cameras oh let's do a mic check all these people with skill sets that are. So far away from mine so with YouTube the problem it's that it's me and Alex or although those yeah. So when stuff goes wrong and like people comment saying I didn't think the quality this one all the sounds not really good you like trust me if I could work out why the sound here it's not on this video. So happen but that's what I love about you cube yeah with it I saw in you recent video you were showing off the boot function where you laughter up laughter like in front of the. And I didn't work straight over I love that yeah real life isn't it I love that it's exciting that you can just hold a camera in your hand. And then.

Twelve hours work later for Alex and you got a cup of tea in the morning and I'm watching the YouTube video but even then.

It's like you can turn it around even like the same day I used to videos in the same day it's like you if you're documenting something. And turn it round it can be right can be different it can be you know unique. And every round of golf that you play every different golf course can be different. And you know we've tried we really strive ourselves now I've kind of obviously Excel the productivity now and make sure the videos are as good as it can possibly be this is why the launch of the second channel where we can be a little bit more creative. And a bit more roar and almost a bit more YouTube here but that's that's why I love about YouTube and again when I went on TV it made me appreciate what takes place on TV but it actually made me appreciate you too even more everything's in control I can control everything I can see it I can manage it we team of editors who we can draft it we can look through it we can upload it we can you know it's I think we need to mean Alex need to get an editor. Or I need to bite the bullet and learn how to do this stuff because I'm a bit of a technophobe. And yeah one. And once we do that I think we'll be able to get more stuff I think what's quite good though what you. And it's partly down to the fact you've not other skill set but what is quite cool how you guys have come from me like a TV background where you know how heavily produced things are. But you have kept it quite Rourke's it could be quite easy for you guys to come in and think yeah good we need that one needs the other we needed there. But actually that gets lost certainly for smaller channels people want to see like Rick said you know open the boot first time. And that rawness that realness and obviously editing would make it quicker turnaround for you having edits or whatever but so now we have used a couple of people a friend of mine who's a video editor and a subscriber to the channel who offered to help us out with one when we just didn't have the time and they were really good at sort of copying what style Alex had just come up with out of nowhere. And I we I don't think we would ever want it to be like welcomed yeah it's always nice it's the you know it's me. And Alex arriving in our car in the same way that whenever under his ever played girls you turn up in your car you see him in the carpark you put the boot scraper at the end and yeah you know one of them's popping off. For a whiie so the boots great for a like that yeah. And it is interesting is it's such a refreshing way of because again like today.

With all the people you know in the industry I'm sure it'd have been super easy to get someone on board. And to you know the fact you filming on your phones and the audio sometimes isn't grain you get a few glitches like really it's nice but then.

Also in game it's great to you know be able to meet you guys to play with you hopefully play with other YouTube golfers in the future because one thing that I noticed when I first started watching is when I was watching videos I was searching how to break 90 I've watched every video about how to break 90 on YouTube. And so often it's very very very good golfers pretending to not be very good at golf yeah all going right. So see this this trees obscuring me so if I want to break 90 what I need to do here it's just it's just chip out onto the the fairway. And they do that. And and then.

And I tried doing it I can't do that thing they're saying. So hopefully maybe we can do some videos where there's good golfers. And genuine bad golfers so you can kind of almost be speaking to the average golfer through us I'd love to see what difference it would make to have someone caddy me. For a round to make every decision to see if that makes a difference to my score it'd be great you know one of the ideas we banked I can't wait to do that's yeah really excited to do that to have a lesson in like like we were saying all the stuff that you don't get from your local pro you know mentality course management how to how to play a shot you've never played before yeah because every game of golf I'm in a well they're almost every shot I'm in a lie I've never had you know not just downhill. Or uphill lives but you know wet ground yeah yeah of course yeah water around my boots. Or you'll see that a bit today.

Out of course it's been super wet. So we're looking forward to sort of putting bad golfers in in places where usually people would have to sort of pretend to be playing as if they're playing yeah yeah oh that's the only challenge with from what I've seen obviously being a golf professional is that the advice that as much as you can pretend to be a bad golfer. And show that the advice is is genuine. And it's statistically more you know measurable and you know there's been it's been proven to work sometimes what I've seen amateurs giving other amateurs advice I'm thinking looking going it's not really oh the right advice. So it's kind of you probably heard it a million times you lifted your head you swung too fast there is I hit there is nothing worse than playing around with someone who's giving you advice as you play yeah. And he's a dear friend of mine Charlie if you're listening stop there he was playing with me in the Oxfordshire. And when I had those 21 bunker shots he just kept saying fibrous and just take a fibrous and and after the 13th bunker shot you're thinking if you tell me how to hit a bunker shot again I'm gonna just live in this bunker and I'm gonna dig into this bunker to stay and yards in it you're gonna come with you dig a hole and I'm gonna put you in it because I cannot I am in the middle of something horrible right now and you like you were saying about the open if someone had come up to you what are you playing with. And saying all we need to do Rick you're just getting through the you'd have gone not now mate yeah I would have yeah. And that's the thing with unfortunate with advice from amateur golfers to amateur golfers it's been passed down through the ranks for many many years and often it's just not the Rogers branch it's just so cliches and it's like it's hard to find that balance they're not doing it with any intent of harm no no it's all innocent wants to help yeah it just sometimes comes across like to say you're in a bunker. For the 13th shot and you're thinking I'm trying to take a fiver son why it's not working right now hey so many fivers to get a fiver of sand right now it's brilliant so I think. And we're gonna go out and film a video it looks like it's staying dry the last thing we never did was went through guys yeah I think look I'll give him a VIP. For that that's probably persevered he probably listened about an hour ago my first eventually say any minute now and give a question this question was to Rick would you rather achieve the status of the best YouTube of all time be logan paul dude perfect all those guys. Or when a European Tour event become the biggest YouTube yeah I think can would I think what Matt my if you'd have asked me that five years ago I had a different answer that's not three years ago another different answer. But I think I've become more aware now what I'm looking gay I'm not trying to be a place confessional. Or probably the only bit of advice I will ever be able to give you Rick is now you're in a creative industry you can't win yeah. And if you try to win at creating stuff you'll drive yourself insane we it's so funny you say that because we're realizing that more and more and more there is room. For everyone and if you are creating something you can't lose. And that's the joy of being creative and stuff if you get into who's got the most subscribers no man yeah I think the only thing from a personal standpoint it's I love crying I'm addicted to creating. But I'm a bit like you're addicted to stacks on a golf course oh yeah I'm addicted to. And I you know we both are. And there's no depths growth. And it's it's almost that not that I need but the kids get me outta bed every morning but if literally the time when when I was like round it I'd be thinking right well the subscribers the views the the grow like I need to make contact. But you're like you're now in YouTube sense you're on the tour you've got your cards possibly out of you've actually won a couple of measures you're never gonna be Colin Montgomerie yeah it made you a tiger wasn't plain yeah. But like I think I think that question got Matt's that question Europeans all about I mean not. For one second am I am I saying that that's not an incredible achievement cuz it's ridiculous the caliber of golf now this yeah I mean it's un-freakin'-believable I just feel I could win it. And I'd be like what's next.

As well know what's certainly changed and we've probably changes in other Creators have changed this new guy as well is that three to three years ago if you were a golf YouTube it was that you were a coach in pro. And a lot of people were wanting to improve. And get better whereas you know since the story of the 88 to 89 you know it's quite knowledge now that yeah you're a golf pro by trade. But you also are an online creator. And that's where your passion lies it's okay don't have to pretend you want to be a tour player it's fine not to be at all players working like that the workload to be a professional player to play at the best level it's just we want with this won't be as now would be in a field somewhere shelling balls till I'm blue in the face I also don't think most people know what golf pro means because in my eyes you play golf. For a living you do that now you just happened to film it you should happen to stop every. So often and say I'm doing this with my hand or I'm doing it with this new ball or you're still playing you're still a professional golf guy that is your livelihood there's a separation now between golf professional. And professional golfer hmm I'm a golf professional professional golfers are the guys out on tour. So make sense yeah. So I'm a professional in the world of golf I'm not a professional golfer yeah a professional golfer to me would imply that you're a professional actual gold I see what you I don't get paid. For even though I do get paid. For play for hitting golf shots and giving advice I don't get paid on my score and I think that's difference if I got paid on my score then.

I'd be a professional golfer. But if I was chatting to my the guy gives me lessons Kyle sagres who plays at wickham heights in High Wycombe I said Kyle why don't you obviously great at golf why aren't you trying to be a professional golfer. And his answer was fascinating he's like yeah I tried. And I could do you know I've got the game to do it I've played with people who've said yeah you're one of the best at striking the ball. But the cost of taking that leap of putting in that work it's a bit like Formula one the people you see aren't necessarily the best they're the ones who had money and backing yeah from age six seven eight nine ten yeah. And he was like fine if I go to a tournament I've gotta pay into that tournament that's a weekend that's a hotel that's transport that's food that's missing out on ten coaching lessons. So I'm probably down net a grand it's cost me yeah top prize in this tour it may be four hundred quid hmm. So if I want to lose 600 quid I have to win this tournament here and if you've got family and kids there's no way you can take that risk I didn't realize that it's basically well he complex he's got sponsorship. And this person can play it because their dad's really wealthy this person can play it because they're their their wife earns. Or a load of money so they've kind of got that that give they haven't got kids you know being European talk freshmen isn't necessarily being the best golfer in it's not being one of the hundred best golfers in Europe it's being one of the hundred thousand best golfers who had the backing who had the time who had this sort of other people were willing to let them do this. So yeah it's definitely golf you know if we looked a thousand back offers in the world right now statistically that they can't be the best thousand people in the world because they'll be golfers outside of that you know our batter. But like I said just never had the opportunities well. So maybe they've never the drive you know because it's for the art well I wouldn't would like say wanna be hitting balls all day every day you know I'm in a different spot in my life now and family and everything else but it's it's such a ridiculous commitment like it's obscene and you've got to be unbelievably relentless and outrageously competitive and unapologetically you know ambitious almost do you subscribe to the you have to put this in do you subscribe to the athletic now. So it's a new football football newspaper a football newspaper online and they've basically poached all the best mr. land Catholic his name wonder guy big guy Liverpool a co he's now gone there but they also have golf correspondents okay they have a long read interview with a golfer whose name I have now forgotten. But I read it and it was about what happens when all that struggle of playing. And getting there when you finally get there how do you then.

Motivate yourself when you've spent years scraping. And scrimping and suddenly make 400 grand in a year yeah. And where does your motivation come from. And it was absolutely brilliant when treating other golfers English player no American because it is you know a lot of the tour player biggest professional now. And not they'd say that not driven for money at the dream for win and stuff driven I think once you get. So successful like irori or somebody it's down to wins and money and beating your bean Baker than you may in it if you've got a friend who's just in Johnson you wanna wear more than him and you win more than it was a bigger house the bigger car that you know whatever it may be old Armand not heard of him. So the articles called old Armand and the discovery of what happens when you finally make it so he's the correspond to goth cars no he's the golfer all right. And he's had a couple of sort of top-ten finishes and it's basically his life story is really kind of up. And down everyone's golfers I should know about help I musta mad old Armand and but that's the thing we forget no money there's. So much money in it now that you can be a millionaire coming fortieth yeah yeah must be a very odd lifestyle that it might change too yeah sure cool alright guys thanks. So much for listening a laptop your laps up on the floor is currently locked. So don't know if it's still recording or not right away okay I don't know the password thanks. So much for listening everyone it's the password is don't shoot 88 yeah well come on John you can shoot thanks listening guys thanks. For watching on the second YouTube channel make sure you check out John on all of these platforms and make some really cool videos one of my favorite creators new creators that have kind of burped on some seen in the last year we would go out and shoot video now it looks like too quite bright so I'm looking forward to it thanks for listening make sure you subscribe make sure you rate the podcasts gone check out John on his radio show Radio 5 Live Friday one till three easy peasy and we'll see you all soon thanks B in the first Castro thank you so much for having me you.