Is an average this is a very similar story to mine i mean that was gross [Laughter] the reason we wanted to get you on i said it would be a good podcast. But also we had a question from a listener of the week um who was 16 years old. And played off 11 and he said that you know he wants to try. And make it as a professional and and get on tour and live out his dreams and stuff which we tried to give him some good good like what we thought was good advice anyway. But i then.
On the drive home after filming that and recording that podcast i started thinking himself what is making it what what is making it as a golfer because obviously everybody's got different perception of what making it is. So you as i said i went to school with you know you know well enough. And i thought well in my eyes you've made it because you played on the european tour and you played in the open um so we thought let's get on the podcast let's hear that kind of that journey from you starting the game whenever that was right until that kind of pinnacle of playing in the open. And then.
Now that kind of next.
Chapter if you like of coaching and i think you can offer some really kind of insight. And stories into what it is really like to be a professional golfer yeah um well i got into golf through my dad um he played not to a a great standard. But he was 9 10 handicap at gathers golf club he always really like pushed me to try. And get into golf but at the time i was probably 12 years old. And i would much prefer to go out on a bike with my friends and didn't really get into it probably till i was about 14. And then.
By the time i was 14 i thought i actually really enjoy this. And i started to choose golf over going out my friends on a bike. And that's when i started to get better certainly through the summer holidays because that's when it seems like every junior improves a lot because the golf is just ridiculous were you one of those juniors that would get dropped off in the morning by your dad get a couple of quid get some chips. And you'll we'll pick you up at five o'clock we used to almost have like world records see how many holes in a day we could do before dark wow can you remember your record no. But i remember like some days it was like four rounds of golf in a day. And then.
Wow committee soon got upset with that and made it limited to 18 holes but um that was when i really started to get good around 14.. And then.
Give some certainly for the young listeners um young golfers listening what does that look like what is good like can you remember like your first handicap can you remember what you were off when you were like 15. first handicap was 24 off memory. And by the time i was probably. And that was when i was like 12. But like i said i didn't really have much interest in it then.
Um by the time i was 14 i actually remember getting lower than my dad on i think it was my 14th birthday i got to seven. Or eight handicapped and i actually went lower than my dad at the time in handicap that must have been pretty special yeah. So you dropped from 24 down to like single figures it's like seven i think it may have been eight. And half time was fourteen years two years yeah wow. And then.
By the time i was 16 i it was either one. Or scratch so i think it was around 16 when i got to school wow yeah what would you put that down to is that just honestly looking back is that natural ability was that coaching was that work ethic what helped my dad certainly helped like around 12 13 14. But when i was 14 i started seeing a guy called adrian fryer who you'll probably know we know adrian of course we do it's matt's dad yeah exactly matt was only known as adrian's son pages matt didn't have a name i'd even know matt's name. For many years i just knew him as adrian's son so well adrian uh matt's dad adrian um he started teaching me when i was 14. And that's when i really started to progress and started to really improve and what got you seeing him was that reputation was that because you were you were nearby you used to always go to drive time double tear driving range there was like the one it was like one of one wasn't it this is warrington warrington yeah banky train station yeah is it gone now it's gone now it's houses it'd be a really cool go-kart track around there as well it's still there is it the one with the double tears yeah yeah yeah yeah that is a good thought yeah you've not visited. For a mate stay after this don't we go go yeah let's definitely do it i'm up. For that um but that was like a special driving range because it was two tears. So everybody used to go there um and then.
Just got talking to adrian one day and before you know i was booked in. For a lesson and i saw him for well on and off for 12 13 years wow that's crazy 14 years maybe it was a lot of time. And we've seen him all the time every week every two weeks probably like once a month at the start um but then.
Certainly i started to like obviously as the story progresses i started to see all the coaches through england lancashire so it wasn't just always adrian but adrian was my main coach basically the whole time i think that helps to have a coach that kind of knows your game from young it's like rory with michael bannon has been his coach. For forever do you think that does help that somebody knows you as well yeah definitely i mean golf lessons are funny because over a period of time you get rid of habits. And then.
You gain new habits and then.
You're always working on different things but um he knew me very well obviously over the phone during like golf events i could ring him and say i'm doing this and because he knew my swing so well he'd generally tend to give you some wise information over the phone so at this point you're what 16 16-ish scratch because i think i first knew you when i would have been at 11. And you would have been maybe 13. and i remember you being a good golfer yeah. But at that time you were like like i said you well 14 let's say you like you said off seven which is really good. But you i knew remember andy butcher obviously he was probably better than you at the time in our school he was definitely the best he was like scratch. Or two or something whatever he was he was like a school year older than you i think he was yeah um. And you were just like one of the lads it was a good good golfer. But i would have without being rude i would never say at the time this guy's gonna play in the open because i had other interests really i didn't just dedicate myself to goal and then.
That switch into being more golf-centric and focused is when you really elevated. And stuff yeah when it was became like my one sport. And just really get my head down that was when i started to improve the most when did you think in this timeline. So far when did you think golf could be where i pursue that could be my career probably about sixteen okay fifteen sixteen because you obviously got down to scratch it probably wasn't many people certainly in the local area who's off sixteen in scratch you probably started to get the lancaster trials yeah england trials. And did you feel like the hype was encouraging you to get to there like the members at your golf club going oh my god james you're off scratch was that was that part of the encouragement. Or did you have this vision already yeah definitely i mean that encouraged me. But i liked winning and being the best and it just made me like thrive basically did you win a lot when you were younger um as a junior maybe like 14 15 not. So much but then.
I started to win more when i was 15 16 17 started certainly winning a lot. But it just loved winning basically that's good so you left school at 16 yep and then.
What was the next.
Step. For you then.
My esco college okay same as rick yeah following the footsteps yep because you were two years younger than me aren't you yes. So you followed you you were you're leaving no you were sorry were you did you stay on no i only did two years two years. And then.
I ended up getting a job yeah i went there with the intention in five years right that was my plan because after the five years you get a degree in golf. And you start doing your pga but i thought hold on i'll do five years. And then.
Do my pg that's gonna be eight years yeah it's a long time i'm 20 i'll be 20. So i started i was in college when i was 16 to 18. i feel like those years. For me were the best years of one of my life because i felt like i had a great time being able at a golf college i kind of got my um what's the right word my university days don't explain i went out a lot yeah i drank a lot i went out a lot. And i certainly kind of got that rebel rebellious side out of me early i felt so that when i was 18 i felt like okay i've kind of done that now i'm ready. For a job so you did 16 at my school college yeah i went to my school two years two years yeah. And lots of drinking lots of drinking and one when because we've got a lot of mutual friends obviously guy being one of them sameela andy carter peter finch people who kind of surrounded ourselves in the golf industry certainly sam miller a good friend of mine who was in my year at my school um kind of you grew up playing a bit of golf with him as well didn't you he's a really good friend of mine now yeah. So and um when i first started college i was 16 as mentioned. And i was probably off about six. Or seven and i remember going there thinking i was the boy like thinking i i was here we go i've my picture scene burberry was big it's had a burberry hat i had a burberry t-shirt with burberry like a burberry collar. And a burberry like um button-down bit at the bottom and i went there thinking i was the boy i was one of the best golfers in my college in my in my school one of the best golfers in my golf club. And i'm walking around there i can break eight. So you know suddenly suddenly i'll sit down in class and everyone's putting around so what's everyone's handicap and it's like you know above 10 and a few hands go up and you know high single figures i'm thinking that's probably me i put my hand up i'm thinking not many people are putting the hand up here next.
Stage five. And below like half the class put around the powers like oh crap i'm not that good i'm not even close probably the best player in my class was like a a a lab called jaclyn she was probably scratch maybe plus one right he was the best were you the best in your kind of form at 16 at my school college um well similar story to that really i was the boy wearing pink pants. And orange pants remember jl yeah when he first brought those like we had a full episode on it two weeks ago would you have the sweatpants no sweatbands visors i advise belt was the big one the belt that was the one once you had the belt you were the boy yeah you had to be a single figure you actually had to prove that you were single figures to buy a white belt you couldn't buy a white idea you had to be under 25. And you had to be off single figures definitely so you went there with the pink pants and the orange pants yeah. But at the time it was kind of a throw up between me. And dave cosby who you are i know dave yeah from fleetwood fleetwood yeah um. But i did actually pip him in the match play around this place at where's the mario did yeah um. And i won the individual what was it called prospects prospects toys specs tour um. And actually won that and i set the record for the lowest average gross i think of 69.7 wow. So this is an average this is a very similar story to mine i mean that was gross yesterday. And said is there any trophies that james has won because you've only lived them trophy yeah yeah. And uh yesterday i was cleaning up my garage my garage i've got um anyway. And i found some trophies i had a lot of runner-ups had a couple of wins i had about six most improved trophies that's just most effort basically.
