So if you're off like scratch that's amazing but that's just essentially six shots per round away if we need to be honest without me being rude i've got 16 year old kid to a teacher or off plus two plus three plus four flipping neck so crazy you know if you're 22 and that's let's say now right now a lot of people listening if you're a junior golfer now and you're passionate and you want to get good and you want to become a tour pro right what advice are you giving them. So what sort of level are they already going to be at let's just start there there are rick shiels yeah at 14.. So what like playing off playing off nine or ten right okay. So first first thing he's thinking he's thinking he's all that okay with his jay lindenburg pants on. And his sweatbands first thing is how hard do they think they have to work um well i play i play twice a week yeah. And i maybe go to the driving range once or twice a week okay. So you probably have to go into the driving range so mine a lot of it to me would be managing their expectation level on what the standard is that's out there. And now what do they do that's good. And how are they going to bridge the gap between what is seen as excellent out there at the top of the tree even within junior golf. And then.
Going further again after that. And where are they at. And how do we bridge that gap. So it'll be first things will be like all the things that have nothing to do with golf like how much how hard they're going to work are they willing to do the gym are they willing to do all the other little bits to go with it. And then.
After that if we're looking at the golf game it's going to be based on probably having a look at where their raw skills are from club head speed what sort of club delivery they've got. And then.
After that if they're happy to do all the things that it takes to get there i think you can develop them. And what does it take how many hours a week are we talking what is there a benchmark is there a is there a formula. For 14 year old ricky shields i'm gonna rewind time back to when i was 14. And take this information on board how would i have changed sure there's got to be a level of actual just pure talent as well there has but how many have we seen that have turned pro or got to 18 that are unbelievable the most talented you've seen. And all of a sudden you've got the trappings of life they can go out got a few beers they can go get some birds they go. And have a bit of a laugh with the lads and all those things pull them away i believe the development years are actually 18 to 22. right okay because that's when you can make massive massive strides on them because if you happen to be in a national squad at that point you're going to get less of those trappings you might fall away a little bit in your mid-20s when you've suddenly made a few quid. And you sort of can just do whatever you want. But in that 18 to 22 bracket if you're right on the edge of being really good but you're going out. And you're doing all the things that then.
Take you away from being great at golf i see that being the key the big difference so if you want to make it you can't have any fun no you can have some great fun. But you you've got to be you've got to be dedicated there's so many people out there trying to make it now i think that the the talent field is bigger than it's ever been the amount of spots out there are less than ever. And the standard is an absolute joke do you think it's harder now than it ever has been before 100 percent on why do you think that is is there a reason i think now that to get someone good there's actually some not formula per se. But you know if i go back to just me with coaching and now it's i could coach the individual almost almost completely just on how they are built as a human being. So you know what their structures like from their arms their shoulders what their mobility's like what's the dominant eye what's the dominant leg what how they're predisposed to move what tightness have they got you know um and then.
You can basically then.
Build a pattern. And build a golf game around that one person and there's a lot of really top-notch coaches out there that are doing this. So you can get someone good really quickly. And is this why we're now starting to see on tour i suppose this isn't anything new you see like you george gankers. And coaches like that that develop like a matt wolfe yeah. Or or someone like a victor hovland or you know even even uh you know like sandra schofley or or bryce and chambo like none of them have got let's say technical adam scott goldstrings anymore yeah they've all changed haven't they they've all developed to that individual i suppose matt wolf being probably the prime example of that. Or even that's a la tourist you know you of course there's so many you know idiosyncratic things that he does. But there he matches them all up so you know he'll do certain things that'll match up with a movement somewhere else. And his coach obviously knows what makes him work as a player and it's just make him the best version of him now certain things that you'd go well that's not right for you and we need to change about but gone are the days where you know you go. For a lesson and the guy just pulls up ernie else from 2001 and then.
Compares it is the clubface position halfway back it's that's gone that has completely gone to put this in some perspective then.
We obviously know that if you're 22 trying to get on the european tour. Or whatever it might be it's obviously about what you've won or you know qualifying for your q school etc so handicap is becomes irrelevant. But just as for our listeners what would you expect a 22 year old guy to handicap to roughly be if he's that good he's going to get onto the tour. And make it a living from it plus three plus six plus six yeah wow. And you think that's gonna like proper proper make it. Or is it got a chance wow. So if you're off like scratch that's amazing but that's just essentially six shots per round away if we need to be honest without me being rude i've got 16 year old kid to a teacher off plus two plus three plus four flipping neck so crazy you know if you're 22 and that's and you you're at scratch it's still a really good standard but you know you are if you're off scratch how many times are you going out there shooting a couple under yeah yeah okay well the guys who were off the plus numbers they're bad days a couple under i think that's something that certainly more casual golfers kind of forget because obviously we know that when you turn pro you don't have a handicap. And scratch is essentially a zero handicap. So people see that has been the same that a tour pro is a scratch golfer. But actually what you're saying they've got to be off about plus six in reality to actually have a chance of making it on tour are you awesome guys even the golf that's happened this weekend that harbour town. And stuart sink one he's not he's not a spring chicken he's he's was in his 450s i think the first two rounds he shoots eight under eight under sets the 36 hole record like these. And that's a harbour town a ridiculously hard golf course what is a tour pros handicap if they were if they were a saturday weekend golfer at a highly. Or a marriott or so just a a nice lovely golf course but there really would be one there maybe plus nine but what we don't see is that the golf courses they're playing are monstrously long the greens are rapid all the runoffs around the greens are caught. So fine that you find the most horrible positions to chip from um and yet they're making a mockery of a golf course that is we might go around there the day of the event. And if we've played all right we'll probably shoot a scratch player is probably going to shoot between 75. And 80. yeah well i've played in a few pro-ams now on the wednesday. And had to play off the back tees because the pro and the pro-am you have to play off the back tees it's like it's so hard like it's literally i can hit an unbelievable drive on some of these power floors i played at wentworth. And the bmw pro i'm not surprised the back tees i can you can kill a driver you're still 200 yards away from the green. And you're thinking oh my god i've actually hit that pretty good and a miles away and then.
You get near the green and the greens are rapid. And fast and putting on them is hard chipping on them is hard. And everything and you think. And you look at the scores that week and i can't remember what it was exactly like 15 under. For the week anything i don't even know how they've done that you know another question then.
On these guys that you have elite i feel like i know the answer to this but when we say like these guys want to make it in my mind i'm thinking european tour or possibly pj tour do you have many guys that just want to get make a living from golf you just want to go on the challenge tour over the europe that's their aspiration. And they're kind of quite realistic with that yeah you get a few like that is that refreshing. For you or do you want them to have their aspirations even higher no i actually like that you know. And because they might surprise themselves and get there but you know they they're probably pretty good at their own expectation management at that moment in time and if they get to you know one of those tours and they keep can make it. So that they're earning they're in the sort of top 15 top 20 spot somewhere near there they're probably going to make a pretty nice little living. But they have a great lifestyle traveling the world going to different countries playing mega golf courses. But i think the ones that find it. So difficult is that they'll they have to make it they financially don't they financially have to make it because they're really struggling that then.
Becomes really difficult. So you get some guys who i've known a few over the years who have turned pro absolute ballers and then.
They've gone out on the on one of the tours now all of a sudden there's three photos for your dinner so it's a different thing so then.
They miss it and then.
Bit of scar mental scar tissue comes in and then.
The following week this one's against for your dinner and now you've had a year and you've not hit it that bad but you're chipping and putting hasn't been quite as tight as you might have liked or a couple of other things have been off and all of a sudden you think if on the money list. And you've lost money and you do another year. And you lose money again and then.
You've got a message who wants to move house and you're going to move in together. And you say hmm well isn't going to work is that you're losing money every single week. And every single year and it's not going to work out. So i know a lad in the area who did that went back to amateur. And within two years was off plus five. And everyone's getting like turned pro again he said he's still important. For me dinner yeah if you're putting to win a weekend comp. And get 37 stilford point it's a bit different to literally paying for your mortgage isn't it and then.
These elite guys that you see i'm guessing obviously there's many um pieces of the pie and obviously you're a big part of that pie but like how what's the kind of say if i'm a 22 year old i'm off plus five and i'm potentially gonna be a good golfer i'm seeing you how often are they then.
Working out are they seeing the gulf side college as well what's kind of what's the typical like lifestyle what the hell does the team look like now yeah it's actually pretty cool that because i see it as quite a nice collaboration approach now within the coaching. And so i'll ha i've got a couple of different physios within the area who i recommend people to go and see got one person for the golf fitness then.
We have um one or two people for the club fit in it's that bit's a bit of a difficult one sometimes because you want someone to go and get the right club fitting but you also don't want them to just totally just being sold to that you need the most expensive this that and the other is what's the best thing. For your game so that can be a difficult one sometimes um then.
I rather than just a pure golf psychologist i'll sometimes bring someone in who just does performance coaching. So i can do the performance coaching. But i'm so busy that it will dilute what i what i'm good at. So the guys who do the performance coaching that's all they do. And they're absolutely brilliant at it so i'll get them in and we'll collaborate on that i'll do a lot of the stats work. And things like that for the player and help to dictate what the practice will look like. And then.
On the other side of it will also um occasionally. For some players will use like a putting coach because that's all they do. For a living the putting coaches they're going to be brilliant at it they're going to know more than i do on putting. So that's the guy to go and see for that and that's something that's changed over the last few years i think. And again you i think you have to be really comfortable in your business to start sending your clients to other people other businesses effectively. But when you're looking at the holistic picture of how do i how do i make the student better well it does take a bit of everything. And like i say you can manage one thing yes really really well. But there's so many other elements to the pie and you mentioned on clubfit in a minute ago i mean that's just a huge element of the pie that we you know i deal with all the time with review. And equipment and everything um and you're right it's they're gonna get sold about equipment i suppose a lot of these juniors now are brand starting to like sniff around these juniors a bit more as well now. And starting to like go come on little johnny i'll i'll fit you out with all the callaway gear or tight this gear or does that does that happen oh yeah that happens does that happen at an early age now yes. So some are getting giving a kick fairly early if you get into a national squad you're definitely getting given clubs. And probably getting given some clothes and you're getting pretty well looked after and then.
You know obviously they want a return on that to some degree i guess they've got to perform or yeah you just keep it's just you just keep being you keep improving keep get trying to get better. And if you do that you'll keep that the brand will like you they'll keep going forwards with you. And the hope for the brand really is as much as anything is it's a numbers game they keep giving it out to various people hopefully some of them then.
Will sign with them when they turn.
